If moderator will allow can we use this thread to begin quantifing request for site surveys and possible connects. This may be premature but it would be nice to know who is most interested and how they would use the service. Also specify any concerns so we can try to address your concerns
Remember if the application is successful this network will focus on your needs. With your input and support this will be viable asset for the community
Broadband request
Moderator: Gillespie
Broadband request
Last edited by ertimm on Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
Great idea!
Is there already a FAP/AUP/TOS in writing that will apply to use of the service (for example with DSL it is 50 GB/month on residential accounts; I have not heard of anyone exceeding (or even coming close to) this to date, but the talk of video/TV made me think this may be a relevant question in the years to come.)
P.S. Definitely interested myself (27220 Barney's Lake Road). I thought it would be cool at one time to see if there were an easy way to put up a google map where everyone could put their own interest marker(s).
Is there already a FAP/AUP/TOS in writing that will apply to use of the service (for example with DSL it is 50 GB/month on residential accounts; I have not heard of anyone exceeding (or even coming close to) this to date, but the talk of video/TV made me think this may be a relevant question in the years to come.)
P.S. Definitely interested myself (27220 Barney's Lake Road). I thought it would be cool at one time to see if there were an easy way to put up a google map where everyone could put their own interest marker(s).
Last edited by Jeff on Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Please spell out FAP/AUP/TOS.
AUP is assume: Acceptable Use Policy
I will create a web page for these terms that all can reference.
I do not want to assume what you are looking for
we use google earth for many steps.
will look into setting up a common google earth page for the project
AUP is assume: Acceptable Use Policy
I will create a web page for these terms that all can reference.
I do not want to assume what you are looking for
we use google earth for many steps.
will look into setting up a common google earth page for the project
Last edited by ertimm on Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FAP = Fair Access Policy - how much data can you use before something happens and what happens at that point (upgrade path.)
I don't think any non-commercial broadband has an SLA so the rest of the AUP/TOS (or wherever the FAP is stated) isn't that interesting to me as the rest is likely just "do not do bad things" which is reasonable
Although if there is a service level agreement, that would be interesting too (since the government may be involved, that would be ideal from a taxpayer/customer standpoint.) What I mean is "you are guaranteed to get a minimum of x kbps speed during the peak usage time of day" and "your ping (latency) is guaranteed not to exceed y ms to the backbone" or you get a credit for downtime exceeding z. I've only seen SLAs to date though on commercial connections, so I would understand if there is no Service Level Agreement.
Many currently on satellite internet will be all too aware of FAP. It's quite restrictive on Hughesnet with an x-hour fap or Wildblue with a 30-day 17 GB fap or Starband with a weekly fap (the amount of data you can use before those services throttle your speed severely)
The 5 GB / month FAP plans being imposed on many 3G/EVDO/etc. cellular data plans caught my attention when speculating about the potential of using those services if they were to place equipment on the towers here.
The TDS DSL FAP isn't bad in my opinion because 50 GB per month is a lot today and there's a fairly painless upgrade path (in terms of $ and not impacting what you want to do) compared to satellite or cellular if you're a heavy heavy user.
P.S. sorry for going on a bit as this thread should probably be primarily for those expressing interest so you can map locations at this point.
I don't think any non-commercial broadband has an SLA so the rest of the AUP/TOS (or wherever the FAP is stated) isn't that interesting to me as the rest is likely just "do not do bad things" which is reasonable
Although if there is a service level agreement, that would be interesting too (since the government may be involved, that would be ideal from a taxpayer/customer standpoint.) What I mean is "you are guaranteed to get a minimum of x kbps speed during the peak usage time of day" and "your ping (latency) is guaranteed not to exceed y ms to the backbone" or you get a credit for downtime exceeding z. I've only seen SLAs to date though on commercial connections, so I would understand if there is no Service Level Agreement.Many currently on satellite internet will be all too aware of FAP. It's quite restrictive on Hughesnet with an x-hour fap or Wildblue with a 30-day 17 GB fap or Starband with a weekly fap (the amount of data you can use before those services throttle your speed severely)
The 5 GB / month FAP plans being imposed on many 3G/EVDO/etc. cellular data plans caught my attention when speculating about the potential of using those services if they were to place equipment on the towers here.
The TDS DSL FAP isn't bad in my opinion because 50 GB per month is a lot today and there's a fairly painless upgrade path (in terms of $ and not impacting what you want to do) compared to satellite or cellular if you're a heavy heavy user.
P.S. sorry for going on a bit as this thread should probably be primarily for those expressing interest so you can map locations at this point.
Attachment A - Proposed Last Mile Service Offerings
I assume this will help
This is the data per the application.
What is delivered must meet this base or better in support of sustainability
Name of Tier Advertised Speeds Average Speeds Average Latency (BTOP only) Pricing Plan $ per month
Downstream Mbps Upstream Mbps Downstream Mbps Upstream Mbps @ End User CPE milli-seconds
Residential*
Wi-Fi Hotspot 1.500 0.500 1.500 0.500 <125 $24.95
Basic Internet 3.000 1.000 2.550 0.850 <125 $39.95
Gamer 5.000 1.000 4.250 0.850 <125 $79.95
Home Business & VoIP 7.000 2.500 5.950 2.125 <125 $129.95
SoHo Ethernet 5.000 5.000 4.250 4.250 <125 $159.95
Business or Institutions**
Basic Business 3.000 1.000 2.550 0.850 <100 $99.95
Business 2 Line VoIP 4.000 1.000 3.400 0.850 <100 $149.95
Business Ethernet Value 5.000 5.000 4.250 4.250 <100 $299.00
Lin Backer (50 GB/Month) 4.500 1.500 3.825 1.275 <100 $420.00
Office Link (Transport) 10.000 10.000 8.500 8.500 <100 $499.95
Business Ethernet Plus 10.000 10.000 8.500 8.500 <100 $695.95
* 1 Day Response - 2 Day trouble resolution, M-Sa: 12 Hours
** 4 Hour Response - 1 Day trouble resolution, M-Sa 18 Hour & Su 6 Hour
------------------------------------------------
Regarding non-discrimination, our project will apply and enforce all NOFA non-discrimination and network interconnection obligations. Our approach adheres to all the non-discrimination requirements as set forth in the NOFA. We will display all non-discrimination practices in a prominent location on our web site and we will provide notice to customers of any changes to these policies. We are fully committed to offering wholesale access to the project facilities at reasonable rates and terms. We are also committed to binding private arbitration for any disputes concerning these interconnection obligations. Our network management practices and policies will:
â?¢ Adhere to the principles contained in the FCCâ??s Internet Policy Statement.
â?¢ Not show favoritism to any lawful Internet applications and content over others.
â?¢ Display any network management policies in a prominent location on the service providerâ??s web page and providing notice to customers on any changes to these policies.
â?¢ Connect to the public Internet directly, so that the Beaver Island Cooperative Network is not a private closed network, but open to accessing all Internet resources.
â?¢ Offer interconnection, where technically feasible without exceeding current or reasonably anticipated capacity limitations, on reasonable rates and terms to be negotiated with requesting parties.
We are fully aware of all the obligations addressed in Section V(C)(2)(c) of the NOFA and have reviewed this section in its entirety to ensure we fully understand and exceed the requirements.
I assume this will help
This is the data per the application.
What is delivered must meet this base or better in support of sustainability
Name of Tier Advertised Speeds Average Speeds Average Latency (BTOP only) Pricing Plan $ per month
Downstream Mbps Upstream Mbps Downstream Mbps Upstream Mbps @ End User CPE milli-seconds
Residential*
Wi-Fi Hotspot 1.500 0.500 1.500 0.500 <125 $24.95
Basic Internet 3.000 1.000 2.550 0.850 <125 $39.95
Gamer 5.000 1.000 4.250 0.850 <125 $79.95
Home Business & VoIP 7.000 2.500 5.950 2.125 <125 $129.95
SoHo Ethernet 5.000 5.000 4.250 4.250 <125 $159.95
Business or Institutions**
Basic Business 3.000 1.000 2.550 0.850 <100 $99.95
Business 2 Line VoIP 4.000 1.000 3.400 0.850 <100 $149.95
Business Ethernet Value 5.000 5.000 4.250 4.250 <100 $299.00
Lin Backer (50 GB/Month) 4.500 1.500 3.825 1.275 <100 $420.00
Office Link (Transport) 10.000 10.000 8.500 8.500 <100 $499.95
Business Ethernet Plus 10.000 10.000 8.500 8.500 <100 $695.95
* 1 Day Response - 2 Day trouble resolution, M-Sa: 12 Hours
** 4 Hour Response - 1 Day trouble resolution, M-Sa 18 Hour & Su 6 Hour
------------------------------------------------
Regarding non-discrimination, our project will apply and enforce all NOFA non-discrimination and network interconnection obligations. Our approach adheres to all the non-discrimination requirements as set forth in the NOFA. We will display all non-discrimination practices in a prominent location on our web site and we will provide notice to customers of any changes to these policies. We are fully committed to offering wholesale access to the project facilities at reasonable rates and terms. We are also committed to binding private arbitration for any disputes concerning these interconnection obligations. Our network management practices and policies will:
â?¢ Adhere to the principles contained in the FCCâ??s Internet Policy Statement.
â?¢ Not show favoritism to any lawful Internet applications and content over others.
â?¢ Display any network management policies in a prominent location on the service providerâ??s web page and providing notice to customers on any changes to these policies.
â?¢ Connect to the public Internet directly, so that the Beaver Island Cooperative Network is not a private closed network, but open to accessing all Internet resources.
â?¢ Offer interconnection, where technically feasible without exceeding current or reasonably anticipated capacity limitations, on reasonable rates and terms to be negotiated with requesting parties.
We are fully aware of all the obligations addressed in Section V(C)(2)(c) of the NOFA and have reviewed this section in its entirety to ensure we fully understand and exceed the requirements.
Last edited by ertimm on Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Code: Select all
Name of Tier Advertised Speeds Average Speeds Average Latency (BTOP only) Pricing Plan $ per month
Downstream Mbps Upstream Mbps Downstream Mbps Upstream Mbps @ End User CPE milli-seconds
Residential*
Wi-Fi Hotspot 1.500 0.500 1.500 0.500 <125 $24.95
Basic Internet 3.000 1.000 2.550 0.850 <125 $39.95
Gamer 5.000 1.000 4.250 0.850 <125 $79.95
Home Business & VoIP 7.000 2.500 5.950 2.125 <125 $129.95
SoHo Ethernet 5.000 5.000 4.250 4.250 <125 $159.95
Business or Institutions**
Basic Business 3.000 1.000 2.550 0.850 <100 $99.95
Business 2 Line VoIP 4.000 1.000 3.400 0.850 <100 $149.95
Business Ethernet Value 5.000 5.000 4.250 4.250 <100 $299.00
Lin Backer (50 GB/Month) 4.500 1.500 3.825 1.275 <100 $420.00
Office Link (Transport) 10.000 10.000 8.500 8.500 <100 $499.95
Business Ethernet Plus 10.000 10.000 8.500 8.500 <100 $695.95
* 1 Day Response - 2 Day trouble resolution, M-Sa: 12 Hours
** 4 Hour Response - 1 Day trouble resolution, M-Sa 18 Hour & Su 6 Hour
-
Stephen C. West
- Posts: 186
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:17 am
Aw shucks guys this tec-talk is well over my 5 foot head. 
Iâ??m wondering â?¦â?¦â?¦â?¦ sounds like CCC is somewhat confident of getting the fed stimulus bucks. I sure hope so!
But, why the high level of confidence â?? or do I miss-read?
Surly there are ten times the requests as there are $$$$$$$$$. /
Iâ??m wondering â?¦â?¦â?¦â?¦ sounds like CCC is somewhat confident of getting the fed stimulus bucks. I sure hope so!
But, why the high level of confidence â?? or do I miss-read?Surly there are ten times the requests as there are $$$$$$$$$. /
To keep this thread on topic
The application is a shovel ready project. As noted this may be premature. If so then no one will respond. If not then it would be nice to quantify the consumer possibilities and answer any question specific to the service that this application if accepted will provide. If the application is not accepted then at least the demand will be further qualified.
To that end we have provided information from the application on speed, price to consumer, and service levels as defined in the application. We also provided fair usage policy which simply states we will not block content and will follow the statute as outlined by NOFA.
To the issue of confidence CCC does not approach any business proposition with the idea of failure. We plan for risks we apply for success. The leadership team from Beaver Island, the letters of support, the defined need and the process all seem to lean that Beaver Island is most deserving and stands as good a chance of any application. There were few applications that addressed the last mile need and fewer that were Public-Private Partnerships to address the needs of the consumer. We anticipate that these characteristics all tend to support a positive result. However, since this is a first for the telecommunications history in the US your guess is as good as anyone. Beaver Island should be proud of their leadership team for they one of a very few communities in Michigan that dd apply and it is guaranteed that those communities who did not apply will not receive any funds. That just about sums up CCC's level of confidence.
The application is a shovel ready project. As noted this may be premature. If so then no one will respond. If not then it would be nice to quantify the consumer possibilities and answer any question specific to the service that this application if accepted will provide. If the application is not accepted then at least the demand will be further qualified.
To that end we have provided information from the application on speed, price to consumer, and service levels as defined in the application. We also provided fair usage policy which simply states we will not block content and will follow the statute as outlined by NOFA.
To the issue of confidence CCC does not approach any business proposition with the idea of failure. We plan for risks we apply for success. The leadership team from Beaver Island, the letters of support, the defined need and the process all seem to lean that Beaver Island is most deserving and stands as good a chance of any application. There were few applications that addressed the last mile need and fewer that were Public-Private Partnerships to address the needs of the consumer. We anticipate that these characteristics all tend to support a positive result. However, since this is a first for the telecommunications history in the US your guess is as good as anyone. Beaver Island should be proud of their leadership team for they one of a very few communities in Michigan that dd apply and it is guaranteed that those communities who did not apply will not receive any funds. That just about sums up CCC's level of confidence.
-
Stephen C. West
- Posts: 186
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:17 am
There were few applications that addressed the last mile need and fewer that were Public-Private Partnerships to address the needs of the consumer. We anticipate that these characteristics all tend to support a positive result. ........... GREAT
Question. A home user looking for the lowest priced "conection" for email and e-news:
Wi-Fi Hotspot 1.500 0.500 1.500 0.500 <125 $24.95 - This option?
Question. A home user looking for the lowest priced "conection" for email and e-news:
Wi-Fi Hotspot 1.500 0.500 1.500 0.500 <125 $24.95 - This option?
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BobTidmore
- Posts: 758
- Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 3:00 pm
- Location: Beaver Island
I listen to the on-line radio on iTunes and calculated what my usage would be over a 30-day month.Is there already a FAP/AUP/TOS in writing that will apply to use of the service (for example with DSL it is 50 GB/month on residential accounts; I have not heard of anyone exceeding (or even coming close to) this to date, but the talk of video/TV made me think this may be a relevant question in the years to come.
Limit of DSL (GB) 50,000,000,000
itunes Radio at 128KB 128,000 bits per second
kilobits per second 128,000
kilobytes per second 16,000
kilobytes per hour 57,600,000
kilobytes per day 1,382,400,000
kilobytes per 30 day month 41,472,000,000
Percentage of 50 GB limit 83%
Thanks to Google for helping me with this!
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BobTidmore
- Posts: 758
- Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 3:00 pm
- Location: Beaver Island
gb/month?
What about the gb limits on residential, are there any? I only see the gb limit shown for a business line backer package. Just curious about the gb limit for standard residential package. I'd post this in another thread, but there doesn't seem to be one that applies yet.Lin Backer (50 GB/Month) 4.500 1.500 3.825 1.275 <100 $420.00
Maybe these stats should be moved to a new thread, so ertimm's request can be filled here?
Ted Nicholas
nich01@tds.net
nich01@tds.net
The application process was performed by multiple groups. I do not remember the rational behind the line backer. Some things were included in the application to establish or respond to industry accepted norms.
In the eight year history of CCC we have never imposed GB limits. We have always had a shared usage concept. No abuse no problem.
It is fair to include in a seperate thread the discussion that GB limits or paying more for extraordinary usage in becoming a popular subject in the industry. As more services are offered for consumption the more the network infrastructure usage increases. It is unclear where this industry discussion is going. We would be willing to keep the forum informed on this specific subject matter. As the wholesale cost per Megabit to the internet decreases the consumer megabit constant usage is increasing. At this time the pace is almost offsetting
As for this application and what is currently document I do not see where we have imposed a Megabit or Gigabit limit on residential usage. Couple that with the CCC 8 year history it would appear that there is no gigabit usage limit being suggested. I will do more research on the line backer and the rational behind the 50GB.
One of our marketing names for CCC is the "Coalition 4 Limitless Broadband". To our basic operational principal is the full utilization of the web. We are building a site http://www.c4lb.org or http://www.c4lb.com to promote this coalition effort.
Note this is the correct forum for specific inquires on the details of the application as it relates to the consumer and to collect locations of service interest.
In the eight year history of CCC we have never imposed GB limits. We have always had a shared usage concept. No abuse no problem.
It is fair to include in a seperate thread the discussion that GB limits or paying more for extraordinary usage in becoming a popular subject in the industry. As more services are offered for consumption the more the network infrastructure usage increases. It is unclear where this industry discussion is going. We would be willing to keep the forum informed on this specific subject matter. As the wholesale cost per Megabit to the internet decreases the consumer megabit constant usage is increasing. At this time the pace is almost offsetting
As for this application and what is currently document I do not see where we have imposed a Megabit or Gigabit limit on residential usage. Couple that with the CCC 8 year history it would appear that there is no gigabit usage limit being suggested. I will do more research on the line backer and the rational behind the 50GB.
One of our marketing names for CCC is the "Coalition 4 Limitless Broadband". To our basic operational principal is the full utilization of the web. We are building a site http://www.c4lb.org or http://www.c4lb.com to promote this coalition effort.
Note this is the correct forum for specific inquires on the details of the application as it relates to the consumer and to collect locations of service interest.
Beaver Island Broadband Project made the Governors list of recommended applications. Just another step in the evaluation process. The gobvernor had the opportunity to weigh in on BTOP applications. Beaver island was a BIP/BTOP application. Other were just BIP (USDA) and the governors does not have input on BIP.
No action required just thought I would keep you in the loop
No action required just thought I would keep you in the loop
Interested
I operate a news website at http://beaverislandnews.com and I am definitely interested in a higher upload speed than is available with DSL. Uploading pictures and video clips seems to take a long time right now, and the upload speeds suggested here are definitely needed.
Location is corner of Kings Highway and Carlisle Road, address 26450 Carlisle Road.
My current concern is the cost of installation. If the grant is approved, does it include installation fee help? What will the installation fees be for this program?
An electronic copy of Government Blanchard's recommendation letter is on the homepage of the above website for anyone interested.
Joe Moore
Location is corner of Kings Highway and Carlisle Road, address 26450 Carlisle Road.
My current concern is the cost of installation. If the grant is approved, does it include installation fee help? What will the installation fees be for this program?
An electronic copy of Government Blanchard's recommendation letter is on the homepage of the above website for anyone interested.
Joe Moore