What ever happened with the State Police issue?

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Steve Severance
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What ever happened with the State Police issue?

Post by Steve Severance »

I've searched old posts and looked at the Sloptown road website, but it has not been updated in 3 years and I couldn't find any information in more recent posts. What was the final outcome, if any, regarding the complaints pertaining to the MSP officers a few years ago? :?:

Steve
Gillespie
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Post by Gillespie »

John Crouse must be off the island, I am sure he will be posting a reply. I did find out over the Homecoming weekend that they are here on a federal grant which requires them to make many stops and checks and to work 36 hours over the weekend, that is why they start their bull_ _ _ _ right after they get off the boat. That is what they explained to me in a conversation, so, does that mean they have to harrass people?? None of the "police protection" that I can see did anything but harrass and intimidate people and hurt the businesses of the island which are facing a long winter. There needs to be more thought put into what they are doing!
TD
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Post by TD »

That's a sad tale you tell Richie. If the Island has to be turned into a police state for 36 hours whats the point of having a Homecoming. Maybe it should be remarked as an Arrest Fest with a goose step parade to lead the state boys off the boat. :cry:
John Crouse
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State Police on Beaver Island

Post by John Crouse »

Dear Rich, and anyone else interested in this subject.

I'm not sure how I got to be the "expert" on this subject since the whole thing continues to be a mystery to me. Anyway, thanks for replying to Steve Severance in my absence. I've made it a practice the last couple of years to be off the island during homecoming.

You would think that the obvious solution to this situation is to simply not drive if you've been drinking. Unfortunately, the obvious is not good enough. The fact is, intoxicated or not, if you are on Beaver Island during homecoming weekend you are automatically a target, and the State Police will pull you over on the smallest of pretexts.

When this happens, you are required by law to do only three things: give the officer your license, your registration and your proof of insurance. It also helps to be as polite as possible. Regardless of the reason for being stopped, the officer is allowed to ask if you've been drinking. Whether you have been drinking or not, the ONLY right answer is to say: "I'm sorry officer, but you know as well as I do that I am not required to answer that question." If you happen to get pulled over at night on a rural road by a "roving squad car," and if that stop is made for no apparent legitimate reason, the chances a pretty good that the officer is conducting a "random sobriety check." Doing so is in clear violation of two U.S. Supreme Court rulings, and is a violation of federal law. The burden of proof is on you, butâ??if you end up being arrestedâ??a good attorney should have no trouble getting you off.

I have not updated my website, but I did leave the pertinent information posted in case anyone finds themselves in this situation.

John
Gillespie
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Post by Gillespie »

He sounds more informed (like an expert) than most people I know!! The State Police officers I spoke with told me that they were invited to come to the island, anyone want to accept the responsibility for that? They are driving people away in droves and have ruined a celebration that has been going on since 1937. Perhaps and election year could prove (move) out some of that support for the iron hand! :roll:
RBC
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Post by RBC »

Amen to that.

Robert
Steve Severance
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Post by Steve Severance »

Thanks to all for the insight into the situation. It has been 25 years since I've spent any real time on the island, and then only as a youth who didn't pay attention to things of this nature. But, I'm truly concerned that the peaceful paradise that I've always fondly remembered might be jeopardized by the antics of a few misguided officers. I sincerely hope that does not prove to be the case.

Steve
medic5740
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Aggressive yes, improper NO

Post by medic5740 »

I have absolutely no problem in informing people about what I believe to be the origin of the State Police coming to the Island on Homecoming. At the time, I was an auxiliary officer of the Charelvoix County Sheriff's Department and working with the one and ONLY deputy Jim Owens. The Homecoming, which is not the type of Homecoming that the early Islanders had in mind, was completely and utterly a drunken festival with people having no respect for anyone else's rights. Drunk ball players were walking into people's houses, camping on private property, urinating in public, and acting completely without any respect for anyone else but themselves and what they wanted to do. Let's be quite honest about the fact that some who come to the Island for Homecoming still have this attitude.

The one and only deputy was called out to settle domestic disputes at campsites, camper disputes between campsites, garbage dumping along the roadsides, garbage dumping from one ball team onto another team's campsite in addition to drunken fights in the bar and complaints of trespassing and public drunkeness. The illegal and immoral behavior had to be calmed down somehow, and one person couldn't do it by himself. The deputy got less than 4 hours sleep the entire weekend. I know because I was with him most of that weekend.

It was time to have more of a presence of law enforcement on Beaver Island for the Homecoming weekend. I believe that this was the beginning of the State Police being requested by the Sheriff of Charlevoix County to come help calm the drunken brawl that Homecoming had become.

It is certainly possible that the officers from the mainland are more aggressive at enforcing the laws of the State of Michigan than any resident deputy, but I have a few questions to ask that I'm quite sure that some will have trouble answering.

I can drive from the East Side camp ground to the ball park, going about 25 mph in about 20 minutes tops. Are you telling me that you can't refrain from drinking your beer or mixed drink for twenty minutes? If you can't, you need some serious help. I don't believe that any law enforcement officer could avoid pulling over a pickup truck with a bunch of drinking, noisy ball players who couldn't wait until they got to the ball park or back to the campsite without drinking during that trip. This is a violation of the law that the law enforcement officers have taken an oath to enforce.

Then there is the issue of the officers pulling over people for no reason. I think that is a bunch of crap. Do you believe that a noisy bunch of drinkers with a driver who has consumed alcohol would not get pulled over anywhere in the USA? If the driver doesn't stop at stop signs, weaves all over the road, and his passengers continue to consume during the trip, do you believe that these people don't deserve to be pulled over for the protection of the rest of the people on the road?

The presence of the law enforcement officers is exactly that. Their presence is meant to remind celebrants that Beaver Island is in the State of Michigan with the same laws to protect Islanders as anywhere else in the state. Does their presence mean that you have to stay inside the law? Of course it does. Does their presence mean they should ignore the illegal behavior that is taking place right in front of them? Of course NOT!

I am sick and tired of hearing, "but this is Beaver Island." When the drunken man came through the front door of the Shamrock and threw the garbage can across the bar, was that the type of behavior that you want to be acceptable? How about the one that was belligerent with the officer with a "bunch of s__t" here and f___ you" there. Is this the type of behavior that you want to be acceptable? When the man is standing and urinating right in the middle of the East Side Drive and can't understand why this is a problem, is that the kind of behavior that you want to be acceptable?

Well, all of this kind of behavior has happened and continues to happen on Beaver Island during Homecoming Weekend. I don't think that the old Islanders planned to have this weekend become a drunken brawl that it has become. I believe they wanted it to be a good time with a lot of good clean fun. I believe that they wanted it to include alcoholic beverages that were consumed in a responsible manner. I believe that irresponsible behavior deserves what irresponsible behavior gets. I also believe that Beaver Island's Homecoming will continue with or without these irresponsible people.

If what you were doing wasn't legal, what right do you have to complain in public about the consequences of YOUR ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR. If you aren't coming to Beaver Island because you can't violate the law, then Beaver Island is better off without you. Others who appreciate the Island will take your place.

I challenge you to come to Beaver Island and stay within the law. If you get stopped, I challenge you to be polite with the officer and honestly ask, "Officer, can you please tell me what was I doing wrong? I thought I was operating the vehicle in a legal manner." If you are respectful and legal, I'll bet you your $400, or whatever amount you want, that the officers will not give you a ticket or arrest you. If they do, I'll be the first one to come to your defense.

Joe Moore
Kim Connaghan
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Post by Kim Connaghan »

I don't think the Islanders are upset with the State Police for these reasons.The reason I believe is because they along with the male officer on the island this summer do things that are seen as harassing.

Someone was pulled over for driving down the church hill without a blinker.Last I checked the law does not call for using a blinker when driving around a curve in the road.He was also asked if he had been drinking.Which seems to be the first question asked by these guys when stopping someone.Again something that isn't done in their daily work unless there is an apparent reason for asking.

Someone else was pulled over just to be asked where they were coming from and if they had been drinking.The person driving was sober,his passenger was not.Therefore the reason he was being driven home.

What is the reasoning for the police standing at the door of the bar's at closing time?I have never seen ANY trouble with people leaving the bar peacefully at closing time.There is no need for them to be there.

I can promise you these officers are not doing these things in their daily work off the island.So why do it when on the island.If they are at every bar in Michigan at closing time,I'd like to see that.

Are these officers being fair?I think not.They have the attitude that because it is the island,everyone is breaking the law.They show no respect,they deserve no respect.
medic5740
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Two sides to everything

Post by medic5740 »

Was is possible that the officers were outside the Shamrock to remind people that driving under the influence is illegal, let along dangerous? I know that their presence is a little unnerving, but I also know that some people were given free, unharrassed rides home by the same officers that you claim were harrassing you. Is it possible that rather than having people endanger the community with drunk driving that these officers were trying to serve and protect the community? Is it also possible that after drinking in the Shamrock some people were a little belligerent with the officers which earned them a ticket? I don't know for sure about this instance because I wasn't there this time, but there are always two sides to everything, and no one side is always right.

Perhaps you're not used to officers helping you out. I know several people who were helped back into their cars when they were locked out, one got a jump when the battery was dead, and some were just frustrated by the law enforcement's presence.

I am absolutely positive that the rollover accident (whether that weekend of not) was contributed by the alcoholic beverage consumed that late night and early morning, but I certainly can't prove it. I wasn't there when it happened, but I can generally assume that it contributed to the accident. I would prefer that the driver had been stopped before driving instead of cleaning up the mess later.

If the officers were not doing their job some people would be frustrated. If the officers waited until people were violating the law by driving while intoxicated, there would be no prevention only enforcement.

I hope that some people can see both sides of this. Aggressive or not, the presence is needed.

Joe
Kim Connaghan
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Post by Kim Connaghan »

My point is,don't treat everyone as a drunk driver,unless given reason to.Seems they have different standards for the island,than they do the mainland.
Kim Connaghan
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Post by Kim Connaghan »

The officers are not outside the bar at closing time.They are INSIDE the bar.There is no reason for this.They don't do this on the mainland,so why do it on the island.Sounds like double standards to me.
Marie LaFreniere
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Post by Marie LaFreniere »

Joe,

I feel the need to respond to your statement:


â??Then there is the issue of the officers pulling over people for no reason. I think that is a bunch of crap.â?￾



Iâ??ve been hearing stories all summer and particularly this past weekend since the publication of two articles in the Charlevoix Courier regarding â??Law Enforcement on Beaver Islandâ?￾ The stories Iâ??ve been hearing are regarding people being stopped for traffic violations and the 1st question our law enforcement officer asks is â??have you been drinkingâ?￾. Iâ??ve been hearing the terms intimidated, embarrassed and harassed. I realize some of these stories are hearsay but on Beaver Island any rumor usually has some merit.


In one situation a summer resident was wearing a hooded sweatshirt and she was driving with her hood up. She was stopped for looking â??suspiciousâ?￾. This is Beaver Island, not Detroit or the south side of Chicago. I didnâ??t hear if she was wearing gang colors or not.

I was out one night and a friend gave me a ride home from the Beachcomber. We were followed from the top of Joe Burkeâ??s hill to my driveway. I donâ??t know what the purpose was but it was very intimidating, actually outrage came to my mind at the time.


I witnessed a situation a few weeks ago when our current Law Enforcement Officer took off after a vehicle; he almost caused an accident and had gravel flying in his wake.

Also, as Kim stated there were two Charlevoix County Officers standing INSIDE the door of the Beachcomber, I was there, they were not friendly and did not give the impression they were there to serve and protect but rather to intimidate. The same thing happened at the Homecoming Dance, which is Holy Cross Churchâ??s biggest fundraiser of the year. The same two officers did a walk through to make their presence known which was fine. But they also stood outside of the hall, and just stared at everyone.

Another situation that I heard 1st hand is where an islander had the good sense to start walking home from the bar rather than driving. He stopped at the old Medical Center where there were several officers. The islander asked for a ride home. Nicole Smith, our female officer said she would give him a ride; the other officers were incredulous that she would give this person a ride.

Joe, you also said: â??I hope that some people can see both sides of this. Aggressive or not, the presence is needed.â?￾

I can see both sides of this and I agree that a police presence is most certainly needed but definitely not an aggressive presence.
Law abiding islanders are unnerved and afraid to go out for a drink and dinner in fear that they'll be stopped.
Sheri Timsak
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Post by Sheri Timsak »

I totally agree with Marie. We are for the most part, law abiding citizens, we pay our taxes, have insurance registration and plates on our cars. We don't want preferential treatment, we just don't want to be considered criminals until we have actually done something against the law. As to the matter of these officers not harassing people, I can say as a person who was harassed that "serve and protect" should state "stop and harass". My daughter and I were driving to the point after a saturday night kareoke party at Hurkmans, something we always did before we went home. There was a group of bicyclist coming toward me, mostly on my side of the road from around a bend, so i veered to my right to escape hitting them and the state police car was behind them coming toward me too. He saw me swerve to avoid them but still pulled me over on the chance that i might be drinking. When he realized that I had not, he was embarrased when I asked him "did you not see those bikes that i swerved to avoid hitting?" So I am wondering when we have 8-9 police officers on our island for homecoming weekend, serving and protecting all of us, who is serving and protecting the people they usually take care of. I think it is just a vacation on a beautiful island for these guys, but that is just my opinion.
John Crouse
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Post by John Crouse »

Joe Moore makes valid points that no right-thinking person can argue with. Some of us think he is overstating the problem. Some of us think he is not. I'm somewhere in the middle.

One thing Joe did say stops short of being a complete truth. He said that Beaver Island is part of the state of Michigan. What he neglects to consider is that Michigan is part of the United States.

This is an important point for two reasons: the first is the U.S. Supreme Court case Michigan State Police vs. Sitz; the second is U.S. Supreme Court case Martinez-Fuerte.

The Sitz case challenged an attempt by the Michigan State Police to erect roadblocks for the purpose of conducting random sobriety checks. The issue was whether or not these roadblocks violated the U.S. Constitution's Fourth Amendment. The U.S. Supreme court ruled that they did not, but remanded the case back to the Michigan State Supreme Court to determine whether or not the roadblocks violated our state constitution. The Michigan Supreme Court ruled that the roadblocks were, in fact, a violation of our state's constitution, and the Michigan State Police were ordered to discontinue the practice.

The key legal issue that affects Beaver Islanders goes back to the U.S. Supreme Court's original decision, and its supra citing of a previous U.S. Supreme Court case known as Martinez-Fuerte. In that case, the court ruled that random road stops by police officers create a constitutionally illegal degree of "subjective intrustion," that has "the potential to generate fear and surprise." The operative clause in this ruling that affects us directly reads as follows:

"The fear and surprise to be considered are not the rational fear of one who has been drinking over being stopped at a checkpoint, rather, the fear and surprise engendered in law abiding motorists by the nature of the particular stop, such as one made by a roving patrol operating on seldom-traveled roads."

What is happening on Beaver Island, and what has been happening on Beaver Island since the state police first arrived, is that the MSP are endeavoring to get around their state's own Supreme Court ruling in MSP vs. Sitz by using road stops for the express purpose of conducting random sobriety checks.

Sheri Timsak's experience is a perfect example of what the Michigan State Supreme Court is trying to protect citizens against. Theoretically, Sheri could have asked the officer's partner to arrest the officer who stopped her for violation of both state and federal law.
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