First I want to address the fact that NOBODY has mentioned the word hovercraft. They all mention a faster boat or catamaran as ferry sevice, like the hovercraft is a dirty word. They are afraid to mention the word hovercraft. Most of these people probably don't even understand what a hovercraft is or can do. #1: It raises it's payload above the water meaning that there is no resistance to make it go forward, making it more fuel efficient, because it doesn't have to push tons of water out of it's way. #2: They can be equiped with GPS, they can also be equipped with radar meaning that they can go in virtually any type of weather (fog, rain, snow, dead of night) limiting factor: being type of high seas that the manufacturer says they can't go in. #3: They can go over objects in the water that will wreck a normal boat (meaning that they do not have to flollow the regular shipping channels of the boats) They can go over dry land, over ice, water, and they can fly up on the shoreline to drop or pick up a payload, such as an emergency for a patient that can't be flown off due to conditions that ground most all aircraft. #4: The hovercraft can run 12 months of the year which translates into dollars for businesses and workers of Beaver Island. #5: Passenger and freight costs could be kept down because of the fuel economy of a hovercraft and can be run with less of a crew. #6: The infrastructure will come when the transportation problems are solved. You can't expect anybody to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to build infrastructure if there pay back is only 3 to 4 months out of the year. By increasing the ability to transport large numbers of tourists to and from the island 12 months out of the year this will incourage people to build the infrastructure. After all when the railroad started building rails to the west there were no large towns for them to connect to, but once the transportation problems were solved large towns were built to accomodate them, meaning that a faster means of transportation to the island will translate into infrastructure in time. This will lead to people being able to stay on the island and work full time year round. Just because people can get here fast does not mean over population because island life is not for everyone. So Please state what you mean when you post on this subject, whether you are talking a boat, a catamaran, or a hovercraft as being the ferry so we can understand what you are talking about when you use the word ferry or boat. If everybody was involved the people would get what they need rather than what just a few people want.
MIke.
New BI Ferry
Moderator: Gillespie
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CB Paradise
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:47 pm
- Location: Key West
Mike, I agree with you and maybe the most important fact is that there seems to be no interest or concern by the majority of people up there about BI's future. Only a few people are supporting a new fast boat or hovercraft. The majortiy of residents appear to have no interest and will let a few determine their destiny. There really is a lot more at risk than just a new boat.
CB
CB
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Liam Shan Ballymore
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:45 pm
long ago future
CB, Bibco at one time was owned by this one guy, and it was he that purchased the high speed boat. Some nicknamed it the Goofy Tuna and it was so loud it could be heard all the way from Little Traverse Bay as it ran from Petosky. There was some disdain, I suppose, either for the owner, that boat, or both. Having said that, I wouldn't worry about the people's concern about the island's future,today. Everyone is deeply concerned. Not everyone speaks on this forum.
Question: Tuneman, don't hovercrafts tend toward a wide beam. They can carry a lot of tunnage, but aren't they wider than even the Emerald Isle and possibly would need new dockage in Charlevoix and BI. Was it a hydrofoil you had in mind?
Maybe a hovercraft could come in over the beach
Question: Tuneman, don't hovercrafts tend toward a wide beam. They can carry a lot of tunnage, but aren't they wider than even the Emerald Isle and possibly would need new dockage in Charlevoix and BI. Was it a hydrofoil you had in mind?
Maybe a hovercraft could come in over the beach
...tis a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all problems have solutions...and yet the horse may sing
There was a hovercraft experiment done by the Coast Guard or US Navy in the Straits of Mackinaw many years ago (late 70's) that proved more or less disastrous, the vessel sunk, something to do with our sharp/steep seas in the Great Lakes or something to that effect. A hovercraft would be ENORMOUSLY expensive to maintain and we would not have the numbers to support it much less the vessel I am going to post here but it is a conversation starter. Somewhere in my office I have "blueprints" from a vessel when we were working on the Emerald Isle project that was a catamaran and its cost then was 5 million, we did not have a grant for that so it was not considered viable. One of the biggest problems unless we get on the end of an earmark or amendment to a bill is that the money can only go for a newbuild so its a Catch 22 to say the least. If we are not going to go faster and be more comfortable ride wise we can work to lengthen the ship we have. The Beaver Islander is not "falling apart per se but its functionality comes to question for sure any more!
http://www.scrutonmarine.com/PV2021.htm
http://www.scrutonmarine.com/PV2021.htm
I have been looking online at worldwide ship brokerage companies that specialize in used commercial vessels. Has the possibility of a used ferry been talked about? It seems the cost may be substantially lower if the right deal and fit for the island can be found.
Just a thought.
I had better put my real name here. :)
Mike Verleger
Just a thought.
I had better put my real name here. :)
Mike Verleger
What has been interesting about this thread is that almost every demographic that either visits or lives on the island has weighed in on this issue and the common themes that exist are:
If we need another ferry we need faster service to make it easier for more folks to come here.
More folks coming to the island means some will fall in love with the place and become seasonal homeowners, regular visitors or potentially permanent residents, but will certainly strengthen the island economically
If this is a subsidized vehicle, the public needs to have a better avenue for input into how the vessel is run
A pilot program with an existing faster ferry service should be run in the summer months to see if it would stimulate visitors to the island as the proposed new ferry offers nothing for the potential visitor in terms of time savings.
Many other tourist locations have recently placed speed and faster ferry service as a priority.
The Beaver Island economy suffers from not enough visitors to allow private consumer discretionary businesses to thrive and expanding or lengthening the season when possible should be considered.
Those are the common things that I noticed.
If we need another ferry we need faster service to make it easier for more folks to come here.
More folks coming to the island means some will fall in love with the place and become seasonal homeowners, regular visitors or potentially permanent residents, but will certainly strengthen the island economically
If this is a subsidized vehicle, the public needs to have a better avenue for input into how the vessel is run
A pilot program with an existing faster ferry service should be run in the summer months to see if it would stimulate visitors to the island as the proposed new ferry offers nothing for the potential visitor in terms of time savings.
Many other tourist locations have recently placed speed and faster ferry service as a priority.
The Beaver Island economy suffers from not enough visitors to allow private consumer discretionary businesses to thrive and expanding or lengthening the season when possible should be considered.
Those are the common things that I noticed.
it's been a great topic to follow....but.....hasn't the decision already been made? Why would BITA award a contract to Elliot Bay Design Group to design a new boat if they are still accepting opinions on the design. BITA has already made up it mind. The next boat will be a 150 passenger, 24 vehicle vessel. It will make 1,500 Horsepower and go 13.5 knots. Plan accordingly it's going to take 2.5 hours to make the crossing.
These design contracts are EXPENSIVE. You don't award contracts for the design of a boat you might want. BITA and BIBCo have all ready decided they are in the freight business and if you want to ride along that's your choice, but it's going to be a 2.5 hours crossing.
Kraig Pike
These design contracts are EXPENSIVE. You don't award contracts for the design of a boat you might want. BITA and BIBCo have all ready decided they are in the freight business and if you want to ride along that's your choice, but it's going to be a 2.5 hours crossing.
Kraig Pike
When we were investigating the building of the Emerald Isle I too was looking for faster but the funds would not support it. At the time I had contacted Gladding Hearn out East, a licensed builder of fast cats, I am sure they built some of the Mackinac Island catamarans although only passenger type vessels would not serve our long route as well. We have to take everything with us that we can because of the distance. Anyway, at that time they sent me specs on a catamaran that would haul a semi, etc. and about 24 cars etc. but the price tag then was 5-7 million I believe and now it would be double that..........
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CB Paradise
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:47 pm
- Location: Key West
I think the consensus of opinions, at least expressed here, are in favor of a faster boat which also seems to be the conventional wisdom of other locations around the US or even the world. I have no direct knowledge of the boats status but find it hard to believe that the public and customers would not have been consulted in regards to the needs of a new boat.
Does anyone know if it is a foregone conclusion?
CB
Does anyone know if it is a foregone conclusion?
CB
We race go-karts for fun. Speed cost money, money wins races. How fast do you want to go?
We want a quick trip across the lake. Speed cost money. How much do you want to spend?
Increase speed = Increase cost = Increase fares
Lets look at the big picture. The island probably only needs speed 3 months out of the year. The balance of the season in the spring and fall is freight and a few passengers. So the island merchants would bear the cost of the speed they don't need the remainer of the season.
Flying over is twice the cost of the boat. If they increase the fare on a fast ferry to cover the increase operational cost and the gap narrows it may cause more people to fly and then the ferry has created it's own demise.
Just thinking......
Kraig
We want a quick trip across the lake. Speed cost money. How much do you want to spend?
Increase speed = Increase cost = Increase fares
Lets look at the big picture. The island probably only needs speed 3 months out of the year. The balance of the season in the spring and fall is freight and a few passengers. So the island merchants would bear the cost of the speed they don't need the remainer of the season.
Flying over is twice the cost of the boat. If they increase the fare on a fast ferry to cover the increase operational cost and the gap narrows it may cause more people to fly and then the ferry has created it's own demise.
Just thinking......
Kraig
BI Boat Ferry.
This whole thread is starting to upset me. So this will be my last comment on this subject.
You are missing the whole point that I was trying to make. First the fact is that my comment was to have a dependable service so as to be able to get on and off the island 12 months of the year. The tourists would be able to come to the island 12 months of the year to increase the island business opportunties. This would further intice business people to build more infrastructure, in turn creating employment opportunities for the local people so they would not have to go off island for work. And for the second thing " NO! it does not necessarily mean more speed equals more cost." It does if you are plowing tons of water like the new boat they are talking about, instead of hovering above it, which means less friction, making less fuel consumed. If these hovercraft have been used to go across the English Channel, and smaller ones have been used to go from England to Ireland I am sure that one can be found to be used to go back and forth to the mainland. In the history of the hovercraft NOT ONE Human life has been lost in using one. Can this be said about a boat??? "The Titanic!"
Everybody is complaining about no employment, and the lack of business, but when someone suggests an idea of an alternative source of transportation the only thing that anybody can talk about is a catameran or a boat, which does not address the ISSUE OF 12 MONTHS OF THE YEAR of transporting people and FRIEGHT to support the building trades year round. This was the WHOLE POINT of my comment and nobody even talked about it. Until someone looks into the issue of transportation for 12 months of the year, and not be biased one way or the other towards a particular type of craft this island will be doomed with no possiblity to cure the infrastructure problem.
This whole island has been doomed to only think of tourist trade only 3 to 4 months out of the year since it's founding because they have been shackled with only one alternative and that is to put everything on a boat. Maybe it is high time to look for a better alternative for the future of Beaver Island.
Mike.
You are missing the whole point that I was trying to make. First the fact is that my comment was to have a dependable service so as to be able to get on and off the island 12 months of the year. The tourists would be able to come to the island 12 months of the year to increase the island business opportunties. This would further intice business people to build more infrastructure, in turn creating employment opportunities for the local people so they would not have to go off island for work. And for the second thing " NO! it does not necessarily mean more speed equals more cost." It does if you are plowing tons of water like the new boat they are talking about, instead of hovering above it, which means less friction, making less fuel consumed. If these hovercraft have been used to go across the English Channel, and smaller ones have been used to go from England to Ireland I am sure that one can be found to be used to go back and forth to the mainland. In the history of the hovercraft NOT ONE Human life has been lost in using one. Can this be said about a boat??? "The Titanic!"
Everybody is complaining about no employment, and the lack of business, but when someone suggests an idea of an alternative source of transportation the only thing that anybody can talk about is a catameran or a boat, which does not address the ISSUE OF 12 MONTHS OF THE YEAR of transporting people and FRIEGHT to support the building trades year round. This was the WHOLE POINT of my comment and nobody even talked about it. Until someone looks into the issue of transportation for 12 months of the year, and not be biased one way or the other towards a particular type of craft this island will be doomed with no possiblity to cure the infrastructure problem.
This whole island has been doomed to only think of tourist trade only 3 to 4 months out of the year since it's founding because they have been shackled with only one alternative and that is to put everything on a boat. Maybe it is high time to look for a better alternative for the future of Beaver Island.
Mike.