Bush wins Ohio votes by machine error

[cherie]

Mr. McBain, Just for your imformation I did talk about the real issues. If you would've taken the time to read all that I posted to Rory's post you would've seen the part where I mentioned over 300,000 manufacturing jobs were lost in Michigan. I don't have the exact jobless count for Ohio but I would consider joblessness sticking to the issues. When I mentioned Iraq I would consider that an issue too. Did you by chance ever happen to watch one of the news channels where they showed women and children standing in a food line (I believe it was in Ohio )to gather food stuffs for their families cause, their unemployment checks either ran out or just weren't going very far? According to the news media the only jobs that are NOW available are customer service jobs like working at retail stores and restaurants and such. That's a huge blow to the people who were used to making 60,00 dollars a year compared to now making less then 10.00 dollars an hour.My husband only makes 8 an hour compared to making 60,000 a year at the steel plant in Michigan. He also had to roll over his 401k which he'd planned on using for some of his retiremnet. The Republican party didn't have the heart to extend the unemployment benefits .

With Bush being in for another 4 yr term this country is in for a long hard haul. We don't need a life line we need our row boats folks cause we're sinking fast. If people think that things are going to get any better in the next four years have their head(S) in the sand.

I would consider the word that Rich used to be an issue too. If any other poster would've used the P word or any other word close to it they would've probably recieved a letter from one of the site managers. I guess the same rules that applies to the posters don't apply to the men that host this forum.

I keep hearing how everyone has a right to their opinion ,that doesn't seem to be the case as far as I can see.If you disagree with someones viewpoint on a subject people who post on a regularly bases get all jacked out of shape and use intimidation. I guess that makes them look or feel like a BIG Man or Woman!!!

[J. McBain]

I rest my case.

[Rich]

My only point that I attempted to make was that we need to move forward in debate of topical issues and not dwell on issues that only keep the rancor going. It seems to me there is plenty to discuss that might help and not drag us backwards through the mud. The notion that George Bush lost all those jobs these last four years or that he intentionally would harm any American family is ludicrous. We are at war, we were savagely attacked, those in charge (and apparently with majority approval of the American voter) are doing the best they can (forget the graft debate, it has been going on as long as there has been currency in any form in any country). I choose to stand behind my government and hope, although they make mistakes, that they get this thing resolved. Anyone who thinks that this makes me a war monger, I have young teenage sons, I want this over no less than any person alive, but it has to be done right (no I am not here to debate that either). I don't wan t a draft if avoidable and I don't want my children in harms way but I also do not want another 9/11 ever, so, as the saying goes, the best offense is a good defense. Some people would complain no matter what was going on. As for Cherie, she seems to have plenty of advice for us all and would do well to start her own forum! I am sure she would have plenty of followers! 6-8 weeks ago she signed off this forum and said she would never come back, something that cheered many! However, Jeremy is correct, I had no intention of censoring anything. I was merely taking a friendly shot at Robert and Jeremy until Cherie, the ever imposing Cherie, stuck her 2 cents in again. If this forum is to be used to express your opinion that is great and useful but she has chased many folks who decided to stop contributing because she had advice no matter what the subject. Again this is not an attempt to tell you what to do Cherie because it is a free country, but, in that spirit.......................GET LOST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cherie]

Rich,You're the kind of person who only likes it when someone agrees with you. If someone else expresses a different opinion you get your feathers ruffled.You gotta be Republican cause,you remind me of the tinman and the scarecrow on the Wizard of Oz. The tinman wanted a heart and the scarecrow wanted a brain. It's ovbious you're in dire need of both.

Maybe you're the one who needs to get lost. You must belong to the "Good Ole Boys Club". Either that or you've been hanging around in the Shamrock way to long.

If Bush isn't responsible for the job lose in this country then WHO is I'd like to know? Because of Bush and his followers policies it gave corporations a chance to take advantage of pee ons like us. I remember hearing Bush and his followers say not that long ago and I quote "that outsourceing our jobs would be good for our economy. I wonder who's ecomomy they could've been talking about.I doubt very much they could've been refeering to ours.I suppose that wasn't said either. Did you happen to hear that your friend Bush during his 2nd term in office intends or plans to ask Congress for 70 some billion dollars to be used for Iraq? Bush didn't lie! He just forgot to tell the truth. I have a real problem when someone such as Bush considers themselves as God. Bush and some of the other Republican party consider themselves Christians. Just to give you alittle history. Christians are the ones who killed the Jews.

If I'm not mistaken you or is it Jeffery who's the realtor on the Island? It's evident that whichever one of you is the realtor will still have a job and make big money after the sale of peoples homes once they have to sell them. You relators remind me of lawyers you're all money grubbing thieves.

Our government and realtors giveth and our government and realtors taketh away.

I suppose it makes sense for our troops to be over in Iraq when it was proven that Saddum wasn't even a threat. Your friend Bush couldn't even wait for the people that the government you support sent to Iraq to finish searching for WMDs. No Bush claimed the reason that our troops were sent over there was because Saddum Hussein had threaten to kill his daddy. If Bush senior would've let " Storming Norman" finish the job the first time and not have pulled our troops out of Iraq we might not be in this mess. I don't think all those other countries would hate us so much.Do you realize that more of our troops died during the Iraqi war then in the Gulf war? Or don't you even care. I know I do.

Bombing Iraq is like bombing Sicily to try to beat the Mofia." We'll just kill everyone that seems to make more sense.


You say you stand behind our government,maybe you should stand way behind.Anyone who stands behind Bush is stupid plain and simple. Maybe the people who had sense enough not to vote for Bush this time should stop paying taxes.

As for me starting my own forum. Sounds like a good idea to me. At least mine wouldn't contain all the childish grap this one does.

[Rich]

Cherie, From what I recall, the only one who has posted childish crap on this site is you! Your grasp of how the federal government works is absolutely astonishing. I think you should contact George W. and put your name in the hat for Secretary of State, I am sure someone as learned as you could save us all from Armageddon! And thanks for your analysis of realtors, myself, a 12th grade education and a lifetime on Beaver Island; to obtain any license, realtor or otherwise used to be considered a great accomplishment but not, obviously, to the standards of a great American like yourself. It sounds to me like you must volunteer all day long for Salvation Army or other noble causes................hmmmmm............ there I go making assumptions, guess I had better stop. Wish you would.

[Robert]

Please, people, let's all ratchet down the diatribes. I really believe that if everyone could simply agree Jeremy and I are correct on virtually every issue posted here, there would be no need for such heated and personal attacks.

Either that or we'll have to arrange a pro-wrestling match between the lefties and righties on the board to settle this once and for all.

Jeremy, how about you take the wrestling name The Killer Kilt? I'll work on a proper nickname for Rich soon.

[Rich]

Robert, How about "Rich the Kilt Killer" or something like that, haha. I agree, the diatribe is way out of hand, I predict that this topic will disappear in 24-48 hours (Carnac??) . Then maybe, if left to our own, we can proceed with our historical discourse Further, it is coming time to clean up some topics that are hanging out there and not "working". Be advised unless someone posts a request not to there will be some spring cleaning done early. BTW Robert, your topic was dying until I brought it to life, hahaha!! Keep smiling now, your cousin Robert would appreciate that!! BTW Bill O'Reilly thinks they should make Bill Clinton - Secretary of State, I agree!!

[J. McBain the Kilt Master]

I like the wrestling name for me. It works. Perhaps Bagpiper of Death too? Here is Rich's = Shamrock the Sheep Shagger. It has a nice ring to it.

I do apprechiate how cherie proved my point about being easily offended. I think just mentioning her name offends her.

And Robert, aren't we always right? Why do we need to get them to admit it when deep down in their souls they already know we are smarter than them? Remember, their hero is a guy that thinks he is a big bad tough-guy cowboy who almost got brought down by a pretzle.

One more thing, Bill O'Reilly should just stick to his interesting telephone conversations with female staffers rather than try to act smart anymore. He has the credibility of a gnat.

[Julie]

Good grief Charlie Brown. I look forward to a lively debate when I get on here but for heaven's sake. I'm going to say alot of "I's" in my conversation because I'm not a proficient writer so bear with me, as they are only opinions.

I myself am very disappointed by the way the election ended up. However, I do think the democratic candidate didn't put forth the right kind of effort to take the job. Easy for me to say I know, but I paid quite a bit of attention to the whole campaign. I'm talking from a couple years ago, when the Democratic party was first looking for a candidate and right through to the election.

I'm not sure I call myself a total Democrat, I see myself more that way than I do a Republican. I, however; believe that this election was won greatly on the fear of the future, security of the country, not that our President was a overwhelming candidate. I'm of the believe we need to get rid of the two party system, and maybe even the presidency all together, maybe have a 3-5 man cabinet. Only my thoughts, I live in America, so I have to live by the majority or get out.

I do have to say I don't like the Republican party speaking for me when they say they have won a mandate for the country, they have no idea what I'm thinking about. I don't like their "put on airs" about them, they appear to be above the common man and that greatly insults me. They are not the only people that believe in God and I really resent their using that as a platform, I know a great many Republicans who have no offer of Christianity in their souls.

But I also believe in supporting my country, I do not believe in the war in Iraq, I'm glad Saddam Hussein is out of power but I don't believe we had to be the ones to make it happen. There certainly is a very gray cloud over the excuse given to get him out of power.


By supporting my country I mean voting, being aware, being part of the economy, supporting the troops whether I believe in this war or any war. If people don't get involved then I feel they lose bitching rights, oops probably a bad word and I'm sorry.

I'm concerned that we had a trillion dollar surplus and where did it go, who do we see about that.

We all have to pay taxes no matter where you live, I would rather see some of mine go to a national health care system as I believe we are near reaching a crisis status in this area. In just our own cities and homes I see things that need to be done and we spend way too much money on things I consider not as important.

We need to bring our jobs home while still being able to belong to a world economy.

What do all my opinions mean, probably laughable to the many that read this, but I just had to jump in here because well I just had to.

Cherie it sure sounds like you have a ax to grind with my brother Rich and I think the world in general, of course I'm assuming but you can read alot into what you write.

I would like to see us all devote our energy to making our country a better place to live, it's a great place to live, but we've got a long way to go baby.

[cherie]

Hi Julie, I wouldn't have got so upset with Rich if he would've kept his 2 cents worth to himself.

I was paying a compliment to someone who had already posted on the Bush wins such and such.

I guess I had left the r out of Rory's name and I told Jeffery who by the way was alot nicer to me then Rich,that I doubted that Rory would be upset. Are you sure Jeffery isn't your brother instead of Rich.

Then J. McBain told me I should stick to the issues which I was.

You're darned if you do and darned if you don't. There's no in between on this forum, then you get told you're telling a bunch of grap and to get lost.

I get very emotional when it comes to politics especially when we've been homeless twice and just when we thought we were back on our feet the steel company where my husband worked about a year ago was closed . This whole mess took place back in Michigan.

Like Rich I was born and lived in Michigan all my life.All my Native American Lineage is back there. All my ancestory were all from the Beaver Island,Sault Saint Marie ,Charlevoix,St. James,Cheboygan,Mackinac City,Hessel,Naubinway,and St. Ignace just to name a few.

My Grandparents lived on Beaver Island in St. James and had children who were born there as well. I have a picture of my Grandmother Agnes Ameila LaBlanc standing iin front of a old building.I believe Rich was the one who told me the post office was still standing. I also have a photocopy of a page out of the Lafrenire grocery store ledger which is displayed in the Beaver Island Morman Museum Old Print Shop that shows my Grandfather Eugene LaBlanc as a customer. Mr. William ( Bill) Cashman sent me several printouts of some imformation that was on file at the Histroical society there on the Island regarding my ancestory.

I had planned on visiting the Island prior to leaving Michigan cause Mr. Cashman said the house where my Grandparents stayed was still intact. This he found out by talking to some " Old Timers" as he called them. There's also a lady who told me a relative of hers was 100 some years old who lived on the Island and that she would ask this relative if he might have known anyone with the surname of LaBlanc/White.

I had promised Mr. Cashman I would be more than happy to send him copies of all my family history so he could display it in the Historical Society. If the people on this forum are any example of how the rest of the citizens are on the Island I don't think I want to even waste my time.

That's all I've got to say at this moment.

Cherie Eck-Tebo

[Michelle LaFreniere]

Well said Julie!! You go Girl! I feel much the same way as you do, and I also appreciate that because I live in America, I have the right to have my own opinion. I enjoy, even relish at times, reading others opinions. Sometimes they make me think, sometimes they make me laugh, but always, they make me understand the opposition just a little better.
I may not always agree with Richie's, or Robert's, or Rory's, or Jeremy's or even Cherie's opinions but I value them. I know all but Cherie personally, and regardless of their election time opinions, on a regular day they are regular guys and live in the same town (Jeremy only wishes) as I do. I refuse to chastise them, when tomorrow I may need them. THAT is what life in a small town is. I wonder Cherie, if you know ANY of these men, and what they are really like. I know that, when the chips are down they dont ask or care what my party affiliation is. I am sorry you cant live here and see that there is so much more to people than their political opinions. By the way Cherie, what is your connection to Beaver Island??

[Mike Green]

Cheri, you always have an opinion on every thing. Did you ever think you might be wrong once in awhile? I am an Islander and still live here. I also think you should start your own forum so we won't have to read it

[cherie]

Hi Michelle, You'll see what my connection is to Beaver Island if you read the bottom of my reply to Julie's post.

Since she was talking about me I replied to her reply.Other then that I'm not really mad or hate anyone. I can't do anything about how they feel about me and I'm not going to try. I don't worry about those things I can't change or waist my energy on. I only try to change or worry about the things I can.

I've considered having my own website but, it takes money to do it right.My husband is a whiz kid when it comes to computers. Right now he sells Dell computers, here in California and still sells them (Dell computers) to friends back in Michigan.He sells software to remove virues,sets up dial-ups and builds computers from the case up. At one time prior to us moving out here he used to teach computer classes at Lansing Community College. Which was long before he worked at the steel company which closed because of hard times and that was part of the reason we left Michiagn alittle over a yaer ago.

I left alot of family history back there.There were even new cousins that I kept in touch with by e-mail but, never got to meet in person. Like I told Julie I too lived in Michigan all my life and that's where my Native American lineage started. My parents and their ancestors were from most of the U.P area including Beaver Island .

I told my husband how Jeff mentioned to me that he contacts Dell in India.My husband deals with Dell locally and still gets good prices because he's a dealer and has been for years.


That's all I'm going to say.

[Robert]

To Rich, Julie, Jeremy, et. al--

Some say we should focus on fixing what's wrong with the country, and bridge the divisions that now seem to run so deep in America--and I agree in principle. But just as the public has very different ideas about politics and candidates and public policy, it also has very different ideas about how to improve the nation and heal the wounds left by the bitter in-fighting of recent years. And so the division continues.

I haven't seen the country this split in my lifetime, and it's truly a sad thing. Each side is convinced of its rightness, and there doesn't seem to be any middle ground to work with. There used to be moderates from both parties that governed from the center; leaders like Governor Bill Milliken and others. Even Nixon is called a moderate Republican today, (though back in the day he was considered pure evil by many.) The fact that such a polarizing political figure from our past is now considered moderate compared to the present leadership?--that says something in itself, in my view.

Unfortunately, I have serious doubts that unity will come easily, or soon. People's most basic values and viewpoints are involved here, and I suspect our destiny as a nation has irreversibly changed course; the very definition of who and what America is has changed. But we're all in this boat together now, regardless of what we feel about it's course. Time will tell if we've made the right choices or not.

As for deleting topics on this board, I hope that topics, whether they be ones I or anyone introduce, aren't removed because they're controversial, or unpopular, or just provocative. There is a lot of value in debate, especially when those arguments deal with big issues that affect all of us.

Like Michelle, I feel that I understand opposing viewpoints better, at least in the aftermath of the recent campaign and election. It doesn't mean I agree with all of those ideas, or the approach toward security and prosperity our leaders have taken--but I can see more clearly why people have made the choices they have, and that's a good thing in itself.

Maybe in the next four years the public can find ways to meet halfway, dialogue, better understand each side's basic hopes, fears, and dreams. I hope so. Abe Lincoln said that a nation divided cannot stand. He spoke from experience. How to restore some level of unity is a topic worth discussing, even if we can't agree on many other things right now. Slainte...

[J.McBain]

I agree completely Robert.
The chances of this nation coming together in the near future are slim. Both sides spend so much time degrading each other that there are too many wounds that need to heal in order for this to happen. And we are not even letting the wounds heal presently. Bush's allies are almost sounding like rampaging villagers with torches as they call for the destruction of all those who disagree with them (see the news on Bob Jones III's letter to Bush and James Dobson's letter to Bush â?? both call themselves Christian, but I question this). On the left, we have people so upset that they are batting around talk of succession or leaving the country for Canada, all the while calling the Bush lovers Ignorant Pig Porking Rednecks (cute name).
Our only hope as a nation is that the next generation of voters comes to their senses and teaches us a lesson on compromise.
As for my original posted story telling about how the media failed, as a member of the media, I can tell you the problem is the national media has lost its freaking mind in the name of ratings. While one could argue that it is the public which is causing this change in the media through their lack of support for actual newsworth programs (we seem more interested in who is winning on Survivor than which countries have really nasty weapons they want to use on us), I believe the media must shoulder the responsibility of this problem by itself. The media has a duty to look past ratings, circulation or revenue and present the news, real news, informative news.
Lately though, the media has instead focused on news that is not informative or needed. Do we really need around the clock reporting on the celebrities? Was Laci Peterson really national news, every-damn-day? (True story, I was in Olson's the other day when the cashier started shouting to everyone the line that Scott Peterson was found guilty. To my amazement, people in the line started talking about that trial and bringing up details that were amazing. So, I asked who all in the line knew what the national debt was? No one did.)
So, what needs to happen? We need to make the media accountable to all Americans and live up to the responsibilities given to them in the First Amendment. We need to say â?? and this will be hard for some of us â?? "Enough of the trival crap you feed us, we want real information." And this needs to be done without laws or committees, but through the viewing and reading habits we have. We must reward real news outlets (and no Fox News and CNN are not real news outlets. They have become news entertainment, with little focus on facts) with our attention.
Oh how I wish this would happen....