The understanding of Township consolidation.

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islandliving
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The understanding of Township consolidation.

Post by islandliving »

I am going to give my two cents about first how I feel the consolidation should have been approached. And second how it was approached. I would think that if a couple of individuals or more from Beaver Island might get together and have discussions about making the Island one Township. At the time they decided it might be a good idea I would think they would then go to the Township boards and start discussing with them the idea. If the township boards thought it was a good idea I would think they would start getting this idea out to the public. I would think at this point public hearings would be set, township meetings, anything to get support from voters that they in majority would think consolidation was a good idea. If support was shown I would think the township boards would do extensive research to show the voters all the pros and cons of the consolidation. If it time it was decided by the boards that consolidation was a good idea and many facts were presented to the voters it would be at this time a petition would be circulated to put the idea on the ballot and give the voters a chance to vote for it or not with a lot of information pro and con about the consolidation.

So the way consolidation got to the ballot goes like this. 2 Beaver Island residents circulated a petition to get the minimum signatures needed to get the consolidation on the ballot. 1 official from St. James signed the petition and 1 trustee from Peaine signed the petition. Nothing was brought to the townships about consolidation before the County voted to approve the proposal. Or at least not to Peaine Township although a trustee signed the petition. I will be called out and probably be called names and whatever, but I do not believe the proposal was advertised properly to the voters. The first post on the forum was to announce the County's approval and to inform voters it was on the ballot. Why would something this big to the Island be kept such a secret? What is the motive? This sneaky political move is tearing the Island apart. Read all the post. People are very angry. And then to be silent and just let it ride. So wrong. People make statements agreeing it was wrong but are like Oh Well it's on the ballot so vote. I would like to see anyone from the supporting side of this to come forward and say this is the real reason we are trying this consolidation. The reasons we are all hearing over and over are being proven to be untrue. There are a lot of hints out there but no one has the courage to come forward as say what the motive and the agenda is.

John McCafferty
islandliving
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Post by islandliving »

ation II Reply with quote
The Reason we did not not consolidate the two townships was as folllows:
1. The savings for having one township , less board members, duplication of Salaries would not be a reality. It may cost more. Attorneys to sort it all out is one reason.
2. Too much power in the hands of a few. No brainer.
3. If you think politics are bad now just wait until St. James and Peaine voters are trying to get on a smaller board to maintain representation. For what they consider is in their best interest.
4. If this merger was successful, it will never be considered anything other than a â??takingâ?￾ of Peaineâ??s property by St. James township for the purpose of expanding their property base. The fallout on that and the hard feelings it will create will never go away.
5. Two heads are better than one. I came to realize that the back and forth ,before any new legislation was finally passed ,was very beneficial in getting it right. Thatâ??s what they do on the State and Federal level. Right?
6. The joint ventures of the two townships (fire stations, airport, yacht dock, roads, transfer station, etc. etc.) are bigger financially than either township alone. So for all practical purposes, we are one township.
7.Peaine township has their traditions and they are proud and rightly so of their accomplishments and their history as a township. Why would we want to take that from our neighbors.
8. Logistically, this is going to be a nightmare to make all the adjustments, tax wise and otherwise that will make this work. The Attorneys get enough of our money , as it is.
9. When Vivian Visher (STâ?? James township Clerk) was alive she helped Peaine with all the book work. When she died Peaine had people to help St. James until we could replace her. The business of taxation and representation is tough work for very little money. Letâ??s not hire very expensive people to do the business we can manage ourselves. Islands are very unforgiving of people that think they can make more out of them than they are. Ask the people of Drummond Island how that worked out with Tom Monaghan. They did not have zoning.
10. Iâ??ll stop at ten but there are many more reasons that we should not consolidate. Itâ??s just not a good idea given the nature of the two townships. Good people in both townships with a system of our own checks and balances. If itâ??s not broke then donâ??t fix it, comes to mind. Beaver Island is not perfect. No place is ,as weâ??ve discovered in Petoskey. We are not professionals and we make mistakes in township business. We do stiff arm the visitors sometimes because we are smarter than they think and we are and we do know a lot about surviving long term in the middle of the Lake. Not saying the stiff arm is right. Weâ??ve seen many come and go and it usually gets dumped back in our lap to close the City dump, build the Library, Health Center, Transfer station, etc. Not without the help of our many seasonal residents and visitors. Wouldnâ??t be here without you. So letâ??s continue to pull the same wagon as far as making this a community that everyone can enjoy. We should get rid of any fake names and agree to disagree. I wrote a college paper on the inevitability of fighting and wars. But thatâ??s a subject for another day.
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Ronald L. Wojan
islandliving
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Post by islandliving »

Reply with quote
Ron

I want to thank you for stepping up and providing meaningful, tangible and valuable input into this discussion.

As a seasonal resident with a very large property tax bill on the island, I think not only is proper due diligence to making sure every dollar is spent wisely in order to fairly and proportionally represent and support each and every resident and property owner of the utmost importance, but that also a commitment by all to decisions being made that are based on the full understanding of the short and long term economic impact made on individuals, businesses, agencies, public servants, and the island as a whole should be equally paramount.

It appears there has not been an adequate community engagement and education process to allow for a full understanding by all of the pros, cons, and other impacts associated with a consolidation. A reading of the forum discussions and the confusion at hand should confirm that for anyone paying attention. Therefore, until that occurs, and all sides are comfortable they are making educated, informed decisions on one of the most important choices the island can make for its short and long term future, it seems superfluous at best, and dangerous at worst, to even put the issue to a vote.

Its a humongous challenge to coordinate education and engagement on issues in a place where so many of its residents and tax payers are spread out across the country at various times of Reply with quote
Ron

I want to thank you for stepping up and providing meaningful, tangible and valuable input into this discussion.

As a seasonal resident with a very large property tax bill on the island, I think not only is proper due diligence to making sure every dollar is spent wisely in order to fairly and proportionally represent and support each and every resident and property owner of the utmost importance, but that also a commitment by all to decisions being made that are based on the full understanding of the short and long term economic impact made on individuals, businesses, agencies, public servants, and the island as a whole should be equally paramount.

It appears there has not been an adequate community engagement and education process to allow for a full understanding by all of the pros, cons, and other impacts associated with a consolidation. A reading of the forum discussions and the confusion at hand should confirm that for anyone paying attention. Therefore, until that occurs, and all sides are comfortable they are making educated, informed decisions on one of the most important choices the island can make for its short and long term future, it seems superfluous at best, and dangerous at worst, to even put the issue to a vote.

Its a humongous challenge to coordinate education and engagement on issues in a place where so many of its residents and tax payers are spread out across the country at various times of the year. With that understanding, it should be incumbent upon the community to ensure a process allowing for an understanding by all to be achieved prior to moving forward.

That being said, and in conjunction with the lengthy discussions I have had with Ron regarding the history of the issue of consolidation, at this time I have to agree with Ron and suggest there is in no way enough irrefutable evidence for consolidation to outweigh the value of not forgetting the history that has us here to begin with.

Vince Ebersoldt
Deerwoodthe year. With that understanding, it should be incumbent upon the community to ensure a process allowing for an understanding by all to be achieved prior to moving forward.

That being said, and in conjunction with the lengthy discussions I have had with Ron regarding the history of the issue of consolidation, at this time I have to agree with Ron and suggest there is in no way enough irrefutable evidence for consolidation to outweigh the value of not forgetting the history that has us here to begin with.

Vince Ebersoldt
Deerwood
islandliving
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Post by islandliving »

18 10:58 pm
Post subject: Some Thoughts on Consolidation Reply with quote
I am posting this as a new topic rather than on one of the several threads for two reasons:
1. I do not want this post to be seen as a reply to any other specific post either in agreement
or rebuttal.
2. Some of the existing threads are quite lengthy, and I don't want to get lost in the crowd.

People have been searching for facts. I call these facts, you can call them anything you want.
Broadly speaking:
St. James twp. Tends to lean to the left politically, and is a more urban township.
Peaine twp. tends to lean to the right politically, and is more rural.
The two townships are polar opposites. The needs and concerns of the residents are different.
I believe St. James elected Hillary "Queen of the North", while Peaine helped "The Donald" on his way.
The concentration of the population in St James requires rules that might not be appropriate for Peaine. The leaf burning ban is a tiny example. That the many jointly operated services continue to function is proof to me that two dissimilar townships can cooperate on things when necessary without having to compromise on their basic beliefs.That's the end of my "facts". In my opinion, based on my first marriage, if opposites attract, and then consolidate, the result is not a smooth running efficient entity.

The mention of "personal gain" contrasted against "the good of the community" in some of the posts brings up another point I would like to make: I have one vote, as do you (if you are registered on the island), and when I vote I will have one overriding thought in mind: My Own Personal Gain. Here is why: I am 100% of my household, 1/30 of my church, and 1/300 of Peaine twp. If I prosper, my household prospers, and from that, 1/30 of my church prospers, and 1/300 of Peaine prospers. There will be those who do not prosper at any given time for various reasons, and only if I have prospered beyond my own needs, can I be of help to them. In other words, if I am to be a worthwhile contributor to this community, my existence must be PROFITABLE. I emphasize that word because it is in such disrepute today. The community can only prosper if a majority of its members prosper, and since I know more than anyone else does about what I need to prosper, I will vote for those needs. I strongly urge you to do the same because I want you to prosper also, since you and I may have to work together to help someone else. And you know more about what you need than anyone else does. We do not need to unite two dissimilar political entities, we need to unite as individuals. What must be remembered is, I Am The Community. You Are The Community. What is good for You and Me is what is good for the community. This is not selfishness. This is reality. Every "I" in this paragraph is also a "You"

One more thing.

The larger the government grows, the less appropriate for the individual are the decisions it makes, and the less important each individual becomes. In each township each vote is about 1/300 of the whole. Each vote then is quite important. If we consolidate, each vote is 1/600. So each vote has lost half of it's power, and with it half of it's importance. And the half of the power of your vote that you have given away will go to someone who tends to disagree with you. You can tell me that every vote is important, and I will tell you that no matter how you voted we would still have King Donald. But not long ago I believe there was a tie in St James and and it was decided by a coin toss? How important would one more vote have been?

I am a property owner in Peaine twp. and I will not be voting for consolidation.

Bill Detwiler

PS My heart goes out to you who pay more taxes than I and can not vote. That is not as it should be. If memory serves, that's why we fought England back in '76.
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Bill Detwiler
islandliving
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Post by islandliving »

m
Post subject: Peaine Township Reply with quote
Inquiring minds want to know !!

What is our obligation to the existing township boards if we consolidate Peaine/St. James townships in May ? This is one of the many questions I have regarding the future of my township.

The answer should be readily available now since those who circulated the petition should have researched this before the petition was printed.Please share the answer and, of course, the source for the information.

I do not understand why this effort to merge was rushed to take effect in 2018. Our board members campaigned and were elected to serve until 2020. It seems we should pay them their expected salaries through to the end of their terms. What would be the cost of this settlement for 10 board members? Legally and morally , what do we owe these people?

Thank you for your help.
Donna Stambaugh
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Post by islandliving »

uestions and answers Reply with quote
When questions go unanswered one concludes that she does not merit answers or that the petition circulators do not know the answers. Neither scenario makes me comfortable.

I have heard speculation about the legal fees the consolidation would cost. The figures being discussed are huge. This speculation continues because we do not have information. Certainly the petition circulators would have consulted with attorneys and township experts before they printed the petition. Please let us know what the legal fees are expected to be and, of course, please include your sources

Thank you,
Donna Stambaugh
islandliving
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Post by islandliving »

In my prior post, I stated that this decision is â??far too important to ask the Islandâ??s voters to base their decision(s) on the unsupported claims, idle speculation and conjecture on the Forum.â?￾ I also described the information that the petitioners should make available to the Island voters.

Rather than provide meaningful information, the petitioners have punted by making vague assertions tlhat mimic of the unsupported claims, idle speculation and conjecture on the Forum.

Did the petitioners do their homework before putting township consolidation on the ballot? It seems to me that the petitioners would make a compelling financial argument, if they could. Let us see the financial analysis that they have prepared. If they have done no meaningful analysis, they should say so!

The voters deserve better.











Bill -
Drop the gloves, go to a neutral corner, let the voters decide based on facts, not your conjecture as Supervisor. As Supervisor you need to take the higher road. You can't separate your personal opinions from those of the Supervisor when voicing them publically, that comes with accepting public office.
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Kirk
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Post by islandliving »

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:44 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote
No one has answered my questions either. Again I ask...What has your township done for you the taxpayer? What is your township doing for you the taxpayer now? I believe tax-payers are having a hard time with these questions and why the issue was put forth to consolidate. From my understanding a lot of people signed those petitions! We might want to consider WHY they did that. Especially the township officials because it is a big sign that belief in them right now seems to be very low. I think it was also so (tax-payers) could have a voice. It worked! That petition has everyones ear and (taxpayers) want to be heard and respected. It was a very united peaceful way to speak out.

WEBSITE https://lefevream.wixsite.com/beaverislandtownship
SURVEY https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/6962FPB

If you want to debate someone that is fine but please quote exactly as it was written context is very important to me and to the people reading. EXAMPLE

As stated...This is a serious issue and is not a waste of time. If Beaver Island has any hope of attracting new non-homestead home owners and even retaining the current non-homesteader this is important.

As Quoted...â??This is a serious issue and not a waste of time. If Beaver Island has any hope new non-homestead owners and current non-homesteader this is important â??
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burton
islandliving
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Post by islandliving »

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:43 am
Post subject: Reply with quote
All good points John. I know that it is being worked on and I will try to get some answers out there. I just don't think that we need to even beat the issues until someone starts putting information out there. It's really a waste of energy to debate it until we know what we are debating. Solid points of information have to be shown and that needs to come soon. I will share what I find out.
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burton
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Post by islandliving »

Bill Kohls, post your projected budget! Letâ??s see your facts, I know it will be useful to compare with the budget volunteers are working on. If you are so against this you should not be waiting on others, put your information forward. Lead! You are the supervisor! The question is on the ballot, show us!
islandliving
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Post by islandliving »

The facts will become known in the next 4-5 months. Consider having an open mind on this will you?

Richard Gillespie
January 23, 2018
islandliving
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Post by islandliving »

Isnâ??t the election May 8th. What good will the facts be in 4 or 5
months?

John McCafferty
islandliving
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Post by islandliving »

There is not a supporter that can defend it.

John McCafferty
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Post by BI Pirate »

Hey John, I'm still neutral on the consolidation but just trying to determine if you have an opinion on it that you might be holding back on? :roll: :D :shock: :? :| :wink:
Skull&CrossBones
islandliving
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Post by islandliving »

Yes B I Pirate, many.

John McCafferty
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