Interest find on township consolidations

[meadefamily]

John,

That is a great question!! Here is some thoughts on that. This is from an article I read this weekend, trying to understand where they were coming from. It was a long article and addressed cyber bullying. I have copied and pasted the portion that talks about this topic.

JOHN, I EDITED TO THIS TO CLARIFY YOUR QUESTION BELOW. I AM BY NO MEANS DEFENDING THEM. I AGREE, THEY SHOULD BE WILLING TO SAY WHO THEY ARE WHEN TALKING ABOUT TOPICS AS IMPORTANT AS THIS OR ANYTHING WERE THEY ARE ATTACKING AND POKING AT OTHERS.

THERE ARE REPERCUSSIONS IF THEY ARE HONEST ABOUT THEIR IDENITY. IF THEY COULD NOT BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION WITHOUT FULL DISCLOSURE THEN THEY WOULD JUST GO AWAY. THE ARTICLE HELPED ME UNDERSTAND WHY. I CERTAINLY AM A BELIEVER IN FULL DISCLOSURE. THE FORUM RULES ARE TOO, BUT YET NOT INFORCED. HONESTLY IT IS SAD...



ONLINE PEOPLE WHO USE FAKE IDENTITIES

The internet is largely anonymous. Studies show that when we are anonymous, we feel less inhibited.

For example, when we wear a costume and cover up our face with a mask, we feel more free to take risks. The internet allows us all to easily put on a mask and outfit. Being anonymous creates more freedoms and it also allows us to escape responsibility for our actions, including verbal abuse and bully behavior.

Many forum use the internet as a release mechanism for their real-world anger or frustration. Since they cannot shout at their boss, co-workers, or neighbors without real-world consequences, they take their frustrations out in an anonymous online forum, where there are no real consequences for their anti-social behavior.

Kathe

[DonH]

Kathe: You are naïve to think that there are no repercussion for some that place their name out there into the web.

[islandliving]

Great post Kathe, I do understand it for the behaviors you are describing but if you are true supporter of a political issue as this if your comments are your true thoughts why not stand behind it instead of being a fake or a chicken about it??

[meadefamily]

Don H,

I would agree that if many of you and your "friends" really said who you were then it would be an issue for you. Your "secret" club allows you to cross the line. It is toxic. Toxic for the discussion and honestly toxic for me, as I feel like I have to continue to defend as you and your buddies continue to single me out. I tried to step aside and you and your alter ego...continued to "make bets" and post one liners.

This debate that most likely will never be resolved. Good luck to you Don. The truth is I would rather not know who you, Pirate, Kathy, Woodrow, Tree hugger, and the many others are. It would be so dissapointing to know that you were people that I know and cared about. The repercussions would be grand for all of us. It would tear the island further apart.

I really do hope that all that people say about consolidation of townships is true. That is would create a unity. Like Joe said, we have a few months to go, and facts will follow. At the end of the day I hope that the facts are truthful and the mayhem created here does not cloud peoples clarity.

Good luck to you as you continue this debate. I am not sure if your last comment was a threat or a poke...so with that said good luck!

Kathe

[meadefamily]

John,

I edited my post above yours to clarify what I was saying.

Kathe

[islandliving]

Thanks Kathe, sad thing is we know all or most who do hide behind the fake names. Hard to believe people just can except that someone like me is dead set against consolidation as well as many more Islanders and just openly debate it in a civil manner.

John McCafferty

[islandliving]

I as a Peaine Township resident against consolidation didnâ??t even think of the opportunity of becoming involved with the BITA or the Beaver Island Yacht Dock. Anyone else want to dissolve our Township to jump at this opportunity?

John McCafferty

[Mojave Bob]

The entire concept of a township, by definition, is the area that receives its services from a town. Like a baileywick, which is the area served by a court or magistrate. It was a way of providing local governance in a time when travel was limited to about 7 miles a day each way. Beaver Island, at one time, had multiple towns, and the concept of multiple townships was perfectly logical, and necessary.

Today, the entire island receives its services from only one town, therefore, by definition, we would only have one township. Our roads have improved to the point that it is not a hardship to travel to town and back within a day.

That said, we already have a system in place, so the question is whether or not we can improve on what we have. To my mind, a simple way to think of it is, if we were settling the island today, and setting up a new government where none existed before, would we set up multiple townships, or just one?

There has been a lot of (valid) complaint that the pro-consolidation group has not adequately supported their position with facts. I need to also point out that the anti-consolidation crowd has also not given any real facts as to how multiple townships serve the people in a way that a single township cannot, nor what essential services will be lost if consolidation occurs.

I truly believe that, whichever way we go, the island will be strengthened - or weakened - by how well we come together as neighbors. If this island dies, it won't be because we voted to consolidate or not consolidate. It will be because we couldn't get along.

[Eric Naranjo]

I agree! It does seem like we disagree on most issues as a community. Maybe some life changing event will occur that will cause all of us who remain to dissolve our differences and work hard at getting along. I hope it don't come to that but it certainly seems like we would be doing better if we could all focus on supporting each other more! E.

[islandliving]

Bob, why should the anti-consolidation group have to bring any facts forward. All we want is solid facts and reasons why it is a good idea? To date nothing? All opinions so far.

John McCafferty

[Wkohls]

Thanks, Ken . . .

Your points (reprinted below) are worthy of consideration, but are not valid reasons for consolidation. Like other shared services/enterprises, Peaine and St. James Townships could easily become full partners WITHOUT consolidating.

#1 The Beaver Island Transportation Authority is a single township enterprise. (St. James) Since they represent the only boat service to all the Island why shouldn't Peaine want to be part of the board. No cost to Peaine.

#2 The BI municipal dock represents facilities for people to visit all of Beaver Island. Why shouldn't Peaine be full partner. No cost to Peaine as they are self-sufficient now.

[kanderson]

If you click on a posters profile button and then go to their posts, sometimes you see their names in previous posts. I do not think some, such as megsing3 (I think that is the username), are trying to hide identities. I had said in my earlier post it was my brother's wife, and I actually forgot to sign my name. I probably have signed in previous posts, but in my opinion, signing my name is not the issue in this topic thread. Although for some reason, it is off and on. Same s**t different day. As far as those being called negative--it is in the eye of the beholder, especially on a forum vs face-to-face. I don't see negative as much as I see an emotional response. One that may seem a bit defensive causing others to be offensive or vice versa (my sports analogies are lame). What would be nice is to hold a few public meetings on the island that are informative or to discuss questions. Send questions in prior to the meetings in order to get the facts, and then hold the meetings. I have never seen such bickering and nothing being done about it. It's circles and more circles. I think it has gone around long enough. There has to be a few people from both sides that can put together a productive discussion. Also, there has been questions about why to consolidate. Can anyone provide facts as to why not?

Happy Monday!

Kayla Dawn Anderson, sister of Roger Anderson, sister-in-law to Megan (megsing3) Anderson, daughter of Roger & Jo Lynne (sorry mom) (Armstrong) Anderson, granddaughter to Robert & Marjorie (Martin) Armstrong, cousin to....never mind, you get it.

[Wkohls]

Ken, thanks (again) for your post.

I was wondering when someone would broach this subject. Liquidation of township properties is worthy of consideration, but not a valid reason for consolidation.

Letâ??s consider the hypothetical sale of the St. James Township Hall. I donâ??t know what sale proceeds might be, but for the purposes of this illustration letâ??s just say the net sale proceeds would be $500,000.

If the townships were consolidated, the current St. James taxpayers would realize indirect financial benefits of approximately $200,000 and Peaine taxpayers would realize benefits of approximately $300,000. (This is based on the respective share of total taxable value.)

Conversely, St. James Township could sell the hall and its taxpayers would realize the entire financial benefit of $500,000. They could hold their meetings at the community center or the Peaine Township Hall.

So . . . again, consolidation is not a prerequisite and I know how I would vote if I were a St. James taxpayer!

[Mojave Bob]

John -- The anti-consolidation group should bring facts forward, because, like it or not, this thing is going to a vote.

A lot of people voted for Hillary because they hated Trump. A lot of people voted for Trump because they hated Hillary. Wouldn't it be a novel idea to vote for something because we like it, not just because it isn't something we hate?

Make your best case FOR your position. Tell us why it is better. When I worked in the hardware business, we had a saying, "Nobody comes in here because they want a drill bit. They come because they want a hole". What we want is solutions. I, personally, don't care if we have one township or ten. Or none. I just want the island to thrive. Tell me how your position will make the island thrive.

[Wkohls]

Mr. Mojave . . .

With all due respect, I think you have this completely backwards . . . the proponents have made a rush to judgement based only on their intuition and, accordingly, the proponents need to make a coherent case for consolidation.

From where I stand, this is a train wreck for Peaine taxpayers. We will pay higher taxes, share control with a new township board and get little (if anything) in return.

Higher taxes and a loss of control might be acceptable if someone . . . anyone . . . could make a coherent argument that clearly identifies tangible benefits, but we get little more than speculation and an Orwellian slogan.

My suggestion quit drinking the Kool-aid.