We sold our home and left the island to be closer to family and medical facilities. Because of our love of the island we decided to re-invest on another piece of island paradise with hopes to build a smaller retreat. We knew our taxes would now be non-homestead but took the plunge anyway.
Living on the island we heard many conversations regarding consolidation. Reducing costs was one of the primary reasons. Logic would tell me if you reduce costs the savings could be passed on to the taxpayers. This appears to be the message touted yet at the same time one township would see an increase in their taxes if true. My property is in that township.
I am curious to know how many lakefront property owners in Peaine Township are non-homestead owners. If in fact Peaine receives a 2 mill increase how will this effect those owners? Will this force some to sell? As a non-homestead owner I have no voice.
Saving money for the taxpayer is the responsible thing to do. I too would like to see the analysis promoting consolidation. Place this analysis on the two townships web sites so the taxpayer can see for themselves and make a logical decision. People need to make a decision with open eyes.
Thank you,
Cathy Jones
Township Consolidation Update
Moderator: Gillespie
Consolation
Last edited by cjones on Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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islandliving
- Posts: 526
- Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:10 am
- Location: Beaver Island, Michigan
Great idea Cathy, no Township official or supporter is going to give you any answers by publicly asking them on this forum. Mainly I believe because the donâ??t have any. Your taxes will go up as will everyone in Peaine Township, that is the only for sure thing we know about this proposal. Not a single other answer to any other question though. I think for our Townships to let this get to this point of being on the ballot in May was very negligent and for no studies to be done on the financial impacts to the taxpayers, negligent. We as concerned taxpayers need to go directly to the townships and ask how this happened so secretly and why? Tell us why itâ??s a great idea? Show us estimated cost on consolidation? Show us our big future tax savings? Everyone write letters, go to the officials, go to the meetings, do anything it takes to get any kind of an answer, because at this point we got nothing.....nothing? In my opinion if good solid answers are not given it is because we will be worse off and paying more tax than now.
John McCafferty
John McCafferty
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islandliving
- Posts: 526
- Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:10 am
- Location: Beaver Island, Michigan
I am off Island for the winter so I was wonder if someone could help me out. I am wondering if the petition that was turned into the county is public knowledge. I would be curious to know if any township official signed the petition? It may have not been legal for them to do so? If they did I would be curious as to why they would not make an effort to contact other officials of both boards and get this proposal out to the voters at that time and continue to provide us information? If anyone would have the time to help with this just private message me and let me know. Thank you!!
John McCafferty
John McCafferty
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carolburton
- Posts: 247
- Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:27 am
- Contact:
Why couldn't St. James taxes go down to match Peaine? Why would Peaine have to go up? I have property in both as do many others. Does the vote mean the process will just begin? or does it mean done deal? I think we should support each other and be one Island. We all live here, work here, play here....why can't we work together instead of your side my side. I would fully support a team working for us full time instead of part time. However, I am not in support of not having a solid plan and seeing how it will work before voting an absolute Yes. This is also not some magical thing that any one should be surprised over or that has just come up. There have been many conversations about it for years. People just finally decided to do something about it and as everyone knows that is not an easy task on BI so more power to those that took this brave leap, signed a petition to move forward, and those speaking out on both sides of this question. That is exactly what we need. Now lets not bicker about it before facts lets see the facts and then decide. Is there going to be a public meeting to discuss this with the public? and when is it? We are going to need a lot of them for this to really pass. Show me when, what, who, where, and how. Who is the person we should be directing these questions because just tossing them out there in anger of what is unknown on this public forum is not productive?
burton
Really?
I'm not sure whether I see this as a good idea or not, but it certainly has been discussed for the more than forty years that I have lived, worked, volunteered, and retired on Beaver Island.
What I truly don't like is the suggestion that this was not done properly. A legal petition was submitted to the county, and the election will take place. It doesn't matter whether I signed it or didn't even know about it. It was however publicized prior to the circulation of the petition and petition was filed. Suggesting that this was some back door, hidden agenda, is also very untrue.
Now, I do understand that the population of Peaine Township is smaller than St. James Township, based upon the 2010 census. I do understand that this might mean that the Peaine voters would not have as much power or control if this island was made into one township. As a math teacher, I know that these numbers can't be manipulated.
Right now we are paying two township supervisors, two township clerks, two township treasurers, and four township trustees. We are paying two legal fees, one for each township, and two assessment firms. We have two zoning administrators, two Planning Commissions, and two Zoning Boards of Appeal. No matter how you look at this, efficiency for completion of any project involving the entire island is decreased with double everything that needs to be done to get anything accomplished. There have been several groups that finally gave up trying in this double-everything environment, and their motives were definitely for the benefit of Beaver Island.
We have one transfer station, one fire department, one emergency medical service, one library, one post office, one full grocery store, one community center, one boat company, one county commissioner for both townships grouped with some on the mainland, one law enforcement officer, one liquor inspector, one public yacht dock, one transportation authority, one school, one medical center, and one public airport.
Someone has simply asked a question, and that questions is being put to each set of voters in two townships. That question is:
Is it a more efficient way to govern Beaver Island by combining two townships into one?
They have the legal right to ask that question and to ask the voters on Beaver Island.
Let's just look at the salaries for one township from a previously somewhat old budget.
Wages for Township Trustees: 10, 860
Wages for Township Supervisor: 16,320
Wages for Assistant to Supervisor: 3600
Wages for Clerk: 15, 420
Wages for Assistant to the Clerk: 2,880
Wages for the Treasurer: 15,420
Wages for Assistant to the treasurer: 1,500
The wages paid out now for just one township is close to $70,000. It's pretty obvious that this money, or at least some of this money would be saved if there was only one township.
Based upon this arithmetic and guesses, close to 10% of total income of one township could be saved by becoming one township. It is even possible than even more than this could be saved if all other categories were not left out of this, like legal fees, assessment fees, accounting fees, and on and on.
If you believe it is going to cost more money to operate one township instead of two, you need to provide some actual factual information instead of just opinions.
From a purely expense and income perspective, this consolidation appears to make logical sense. There would be only one audit, saving money. I can't imagine that the costs of doing all the things on Beaver Island would increase to any higher level, so why would some think that more millage would be levied in the future? There is no reason anyone has given to suggest why this would happen. As everyone always says at these meetings, just because they can levy that amount of tax, that doesn't mean that all of it will be levied.
I'd like to see some information that has factual basis showing why this is not a good idea, not just gossip and opinion.
Joe Moore
What I truly don't like is the suggestion that this was not done properly. A legal petition was submitted to the county, and the election will take place. It doesn't matter whether I signed it or didn't even know about it. It was however publicized prior to the circulation of the petition and petition was filed. Suggesting that this was some back door, hidden agenda, is also very untrue.
Now, I do understand that the population of Peaine Township is smaller than St. James Township, based upon the 2010 census. I do understand that this might mean that the Peaine voters would not have as much power or control if this island was made into one township. As a math teacher, I know that these numbers can't be manipulated.
Right now we are paying two township supervisors, two township clerks, two township treasurers, and four township trustees. We are paying two legal fees, one for each township, and two assessment firms. We have two zoning administrators, two Planning Commissions, and two Zoning Boards of Appeal. No matter how you look at this, efficiency for completion of any project involving the entire island is decreased with double everything that needs to be done to get anything accomplished. There have been several groups that finally gave up trying in this double-everything environment, and their motives were definitely for the benefit of Beaver Island.
We have one transfer station, one fire department, one emergency medical service, one library, one post office, one full grocery store, one community center, one boat company, one county commissioner for both townships grouped with some on the mainland, one law enforcement officer, one liquor inspector, one public yacht dock, one transportation authority, one school, one medical center, and one public airport.
Someone has simply asked a question, and that questions is being put to each set of voters in two townships. That question is:
Is it a more efficient way to govern Beaver Island by combining two townships into one?
They have the legal right to ask that question and to ask the voters on Beaver Island.
Let's just look at the salaries for one township from a previously somewhat old budget.
Wages for Township Trustees: 10, 860
Wages for Township Supervisor: 16,320
Wages for Assistant to Supervisor: 3600
Wages for Clerk: 15, 420
Wages for Assistant to the Clerk: 2,880
Wages for the Treasurer: 15,420
Wages for Assistant to the treasurer: 1,500
The wages paid out now for just one township is close to $70,000. It's pretty obvious that this money, or at least some of this money would be saved if there was only one township.
Based upon this arithmetic and guesses, close to 10% of total income of one township could be saved by becoming one township. It is even possible than even more than this could be saved if all other categories were not left out of this, like legal fees, assessment fees, accounting fees, and on and on.
If you believe it is going to cost more money to operate one township instead of two, you need to provide some actual factual information instead of just opinions.
From a purely expense and income perspective, this consolidation appears to make logical sense. There would be only one audit, saving money. I can't imagine that the costs of doing all the things on Beaver Island would increase to any higher level, so why would some think that more millage would be levied in the future? There is no reason anyone has given to suggest why this would happen. As everyone always says at these meetings, just because they can levy that amount of tax, that doesn't mean that all of it will be levied.
I'd like to see some information that has factual basis showing why this is not a good idea, not just gossip and opinion.
Joe Moore
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Pam Grassmick
- Posts: 637
- Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:07 pm
- Location: Beaver Island
Consolidation
I have found that whenever a meeting requesting public input is held on the island, citizens show up. The most recent meeting was regarding the St. James Recreation Plan. Previously, the Master Plan sessions and the OGL/Island Institute meetings provided great dialogue and food for thought. Short of public discussions, people turn to this forum for information.
John, could you clarify where the information that Peaine households would be paying an additional two mills came from?
I would like to have current township costs answered to consider how I would vote on this proposal:
Will the consolidation also mean consolidation of township held facilities?
The following information from each township:
How long on average is your township's monthly meetings?
Salary and costs associated with two township boards, deputies, websites, committees, authorities, include all attorney fees and equipment-phones, cleaning of facilities, electricity for all the facilities? (two Assessor salaries, Planning, BIRHC, Airport, Transfer Station, Fire and EMS, and library)
The cost of travel for training and other township meetings off island by all board members and deputies?
How many board and deputies have received computers or have their internet fees covered?
How many township board members and deputies receive compensation in the form of pensions, health insurance or other compensation? If so, what are the costs?
Markey is correct that it becoming harder to find interested citizens for boards. We'll discuss that in another post on another day.
I look forward to the answers over the winter.
John, could you clarify where the information that Peaine households would be paying an additional two mills came from?
I would like to have current township costs answered to consider how I would vote on this proposal:
Will the consolidation also mean consolidation of township held facilities?
The following information from each township:
How long on average is your township's monthly meetings?
Salary and costs associated with two township boards, deputies, websites, committees, authorities, include all attorney fees and equipment-phones, cleaning of facilities, electricity for all the facilities? (two Assessor salaries, Planning, BIRHC, Airport, Transfer Station, Fire and EMS, and library)
The cost of travel for training and other township meetings off island by all board members and deputies?
How many board and deputies have received computers or have their internet fees covered?
How many township board members and deputies receive compensation in the form of pensions, health insurance or other compensation? If so, what are the costs?
Markey is correct that it becoming harder to find interested citizens for boards. We'll discuss that in another post on another day.
I look forward to the answers over the winter.
McGrass
Unification
Some more ones, Joe
One Power cable to mainland
One Power plant (diesel backup)
One Master Plan (we createdly it jointly, approved separately, published jointly
(There's more I'm sure)
One Power cable to mainland
One Power plant (diesel backup)
One Master Plan (we createdly it jointly, approved separately, published jointly
(There's more I'm sure)
"Our problems are man-made,
therefore they can be solved by man."
JFK
therefore they can be solved by man."
JFK
I don't buy it
There are two things I don't buy yet.
First, that what is being proposed will raise taxes in Peaine Township. I'm not going to accept anybody's word on that. I'll have to see it laid out.
Second, if that's correct, then I don't buy that we have to do what the County says, suggests, tells, requires, whatever. We are ourselves and they are not. What's been written out on the first page ends with the sentence stating that the Expiration dates for milages would not extend beyond existing dates already approved by voters. The milages proposed should also not be more than what has already been approved by voters, less but not more.
First, that what is being proposed will raise taxes in Peaine Township. I'm not going to accept anybody's word on that. I'll have to see it laid out.
Second, if that's correct, then I don't buy that we have to do what the County says, suggests, tells, requires, whatever. We are ourselves and they are not. What's been written out on the first page ends with the sentence stating that the Expiration dates for milages would not extend beyond existing dates already approved by voters. The milages proposed should also not be more than what has already been approved by voters, less but not more.
"Our problems are man-made,
therefore they can be solved by man."
JFK
therefore they can be solved by man."
JFK
In Response to Islandliving:
It was not the townships decision to pursue the idea of township consolidation.
Constituents have the right to circulate petitions.
Nothing occurred in secrecy.
The petition is public info.
Registered voters, regardless of position, are eligible to sign a petition - the law does not discriminate.
It is a moot point on whether the townships feel this is a great idea - it is not the townships decision but rather the decision of the registered voter.
It was not the townships decision to pursue the idea of township consolidation.
Constituents have the right to circulate petitions.
Nothing occurred in secrecy.
The petition is public info.
Registered voters, regardless of position, are eligible to sign a petition - the law does not discriminate.
It is a moot point on whether the townships feel this is a great idea - it is not the townships decision but rather the decision of the registered voter.
Last edited by A Belfy on Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Will a questionnaire be sent out to ALL property owners of Beaver Island to see what the majority of them support? The vast majority of property owners are not homesteaded or able to vote, but they pay the brunt of the oppressive tax burden for the Island. It seems fair and decent to at least get their opinion and publish the results of a questionnaire before pursuing this.
AE Wirth
why wasn't it suggested that ALL property owners of BI be sent a questionnaire about so many of the other issues that affected them. It would've seemed fair and decent to at least get their opinion and publish the results before pursuing so many of the oppressive tax issues before now. I honestly find it interesting that some of the HOMESTEAD taxpayers are getting a taste of their own medicine and they don't like it.
The millages can be adjusted by a responsible board and public pressure. I assume these had to be set by the equalization department as a starting point. Consolidation is the right thing to do so we can establish a village manager who will be responsible for tracking grants and keeping projects moving Island wide for betterment of the island community. When Kings Highway was being redone no one attempted to get funding for a bike path which would be a great improvement. There is NO good reason not to consolidate! Money has been wasted for decades on 2 town halls, 2 boards etc. it's time to move forward!
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carolburton
- Posts: 247
- Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:27 am
- Contact:
Well said everyone and what great points to the positive on both sides. Thank you for commenting and bringing that valid information to light.
I would like to see conversations not keep going to the past and dredging up what can't be changed but move forward to the future. I have seen many Non-homestead tax payers be invited, participate, and listened to in recent times on many beneficial projects for Beaver Island and that is a positive for me. All tax payers should be valued and their input heard and this seems to be a very big step in that direction if it were to happen.
I don't know about surveys to each homeowner as that would be spending a lot of money as well but maybe a place to send homeowner input would be good. And I am sure all of the information will be made available to everyone as it is a very important community, tax payer, and island undertaking.
I would like to see conversations not keep going to the past and dredging up what can't be changed but move forward to the future. I have seen many Non-homestead tax payers be invited, participate, and listened to in recent times on many beneficial projects for Beaver Island and that is a positive for me. All tax payers should be valued and their input heard and this seems to be a very big step in that direction if it were to happen.
I don't know about surveys to each homeowner as that would be spending a lot of money as well but maybe a place to send homeowner input would be good. And I am sure all of the information will be made available to everyone as it is a very important community, tax payer, and island undertaking.
burton
Minor point:
If the townships were consolidated I would suggest changing the fiscal year to 10/1-9/30 to match the county and state.
Question:
Is incorporating St. James (Town/Harbor NOT TOWNSHIP) under consideration? I noticed a mention in an above post to a village manager and was curious.
If the townships were consolidated I would suggest changing the fiscal year to 10/1-9/30 to match the county and state.
Question:
Is incorporating St. James (Town/Harbor NOT TOWNSHIP) under consideration? I noticed a mention in an above post to a village manager and was curious.
Brendan McCaw
Village manager means island manager. When I was working on this in the 80's I found out it took 720 citizens to become an unincorporated township (like Redford Township MI if it still is), that was referred to as a village.
I did a little more checking on the millage rates. The petitioners had to pick something to start with. I strongly feel there is plenty to be saved here and we will all enjoy lower taxes. It's going to take some steps but let's give it a try! I own more property in Peaine than St. James so I want the best final thing just like anyone else!
I did a little more checking on the millage rates. The petitioners had to pick something to start with. I strongly feel there is plenty to be saved here and we will all enjoy lower taxes. It's going to take some steps but let's give it a try! I own more property in Peaine than St. James so I want the best final thing just like anyone else!