WTH

Open Discussion - for our Readers, Islanders, and Web Site Visitors alike. Discussion regarding any and all aspects of Beaver Island are welcome here. Also a place for general Beaver Island conversation and discussion.

Moderator: Gillespie

K.D. McBride
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:16 am
Location: Kalamazoo & Beaver Island

Re: WTH

Post by K.D. McBride »

RIDERSHIP DATA BEAVER ISLANDER AND EMERALD ISLE ROUND TRIPS CHARLEVOIX TO BEAVER ISLAND, MI. Provided by the Beaver Island Transportation Authority (BITA),
23 August 2019:

Year Total
2000 46729
2001 47577
2002 45280
2003 43859
2004 42237
2005 42344
2006 43200
2007 38277
2008 36690
2009 34676
2010 34761
2011 35064
2012 34130
2013 31449
2014 30602
2015 31405
2016 30925
2017 30363
2018 30558

Year Peak Fare One Way
2008 $24.00
2009 24.00
2010 24.00
2011 25.00
2012 27.00
2013 29.00
2014 31.00
2015 31.00
2016 32.50
2017 32.50
2018 32.50
No fare data provided 2000-2007.

I will reserve comment for a later post.
Kirk D. McBride
JFPowers
Posts: 506
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:15 am

Re: WTH

Post by JFPowers »

A year and a half ago I sought the expertise of Hoyt Purinton President of the Washington Island Ferry and got this opinion:

The long and short of it is they studied how they could improve, Increased availabilty to the consumer, didn't raise prices and because of their growth have been able to expand their service.

So after having similar reductions in travel they have since 2011 seen great increases in use while the Beaver Island Ferry System has continued to shrink. If you simply look at the statistics Kirk has brought forward it is clear that the system in place is broken. The island needs a thriving boat company to succeed, not a boat company that brings less passengers year after year and is floated by tax dollars.

the comments below are from the washington island ferry company president:

"We have seen a large increase in both cars and people over the last 3 years in particular, with lower gas prices and growing consumer optimism and an influx of new businesses and County marketing of the Island as a destination. Since 2011, we are up +36% in both cars and people equally, with a 26% increase in trips as well. In the last 3 years, we have increased or extended longer our peak Summer, early & late Fall schedules. Proportionally, the growth has been greatest in peak season (July, August). Our winter, early spring, and late fall traffic has increased as well but not to the extent of Peak percentage-wise.

We have several plans to modify existing boats, and new construction plans as well - all to add capacity to haul more vehicles. The early estimates we are getting back for both types of projects are gigantic enough for us to need a significant down payment in hand so as not to put future operations at risk if the bottom falls out at some point in the next 30 years and a monster mortgage remains! A frustrating position to be in to be sure.
With exception of a handful of trips per year, we have spare passenger capacity on every trip (all boats have 149 cap - some were reduced to get under security requirements). We are able to move 75 cars in about 1:15-20 during peak (works out to about 1/3-1/2 mi line). We have seen peak days of 130-140 cars in line, and due to folks attachment to their vehicles, people still wait in line 2+ hours. We have added staff on the mainland for line control and to direct traffic, are in the process of adding additional parking and accesses to our parking.
Price seems not to be an issue (haven't touched passenger or auto rates in several years), and the public appears firmly attached to their cars if given the choice when the national economy or stock market appears healthy. We saw similar conditions in pre-dot.com bubble burst years of '98+'99, and after 15 years of declines and stagnant growth have quickly eclipsed old traffic records from that time.

So, long answer short, to address increasing auto traffic, we:

1. Did a capacity expansion study identifying modification of existing and construction of new vessel with estimates for both (along with continuing market search for suitable vessel available for sale).
2. Expanded schedules and added trips to meet demand - from both demonstrated demand, and a few gambles that paid off
3. Increased marketing in shoulder seasons to encourage ridership when spare capacity existed, backed down on peak season marketing so as not to overpromise and underdeliver."
K.D. McBride
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:16 am
Location: Kalamazoo & Beaver Island

Re: WTH

Post by K.D. McBride »

Let me just add for additional information. When requesting the numbers, I asked if the State and BITA were planning or discussing a new boat or replacement boat for the short or long term future, the answer was "NO"!
Kirk D. McBride
BI Pirate
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:41 pm
Location: Whiskey Island

Re: WTH

Post by BI Pirate »

Mr. Mcbride, Thank you for the numbers. You are a man of your word, a trait pirates respect. Just a quick note on my first glance with my good eye. In the years you list there have been some events that have no relationship to BITA promoting Beaver Island transportation. I am thinking of the BI Music Fest, Baroque on Beaver and the Bike Tour. If it had not been for those events, I would guess the numbers for ridership on the boat would be much worse. Even a plundering, rum soaked pirate can extrapolate the trend of those numbers to see the future does not look pretty.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Skull&CrossBones
K.D. McBride
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:16 am
Location: Kalamazoo & Beaver Island

Re: WTH

Post by K.D. McBride »

The Beaver Island Transportation Authority (BITA) was established under the Michigan Department of Transportation (MDOT). If you go online to the Michigan Department of Transportation Beaver Island Transportation Authority you can view MDOT's System Profile for BITA.
It begins with:
The Beaver Island Transportation Authority was formed in 1993 TO MEET THE NEEDS OF THE TRAVELING PUBLIC between Beaver Island Michigan and Charlevoix Michigan.
It ends with:
The Beaver Island Transportation Authority which was incorporated by St. James Township consists of a 5 member Board of Directors and meets monthly to PLAN, PROMOTE AND IMPROVE THE TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM FOR THE GREATER BEAVER ISLAND AREA.

My question has been and continues to be, do the numbers BITA has provided above on ridership indicate they are fulfilling their stated System Profile TO MEET THE NEEDS OF THE TRAVELING PUBLIC or have they demonstrated evidence to TO PLAN, PROMOTE AND IMPROVE THE TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM FOR THE GREATER BEAVER ISLAND AREA? This is not some concept I have of their responsibilities but MDOT's concept at the time of BITA's inception. The public it is designed to serve needs to answer that question for themselves.
Kirk D. McBride
islandliving
Posts: 526
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:10 am
Location: Beaver Island, Michigan

Re: WTH

Post by islandliving »

John Kurtz, board member at the time and I assume still may be met with me and many other contractors and merchants and business owners to explain the 15% across the board freight increase a couple years ago. I was told that there was a 13 year plan to save $750,000.00 which would be used for a matching fund 10% deposit or however that works for a new boat estimated to cost 7.5 million? So they tell Kirk no boat? So what is that money be used for now? I wonder why I was told this. No one seems to know much about it?
K.D. McBride
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:16 am
Location: Kalamazoo & Beaver Island

Re: WTH

Post by K.D. McBride »

John -
I was recently told, "NO", on plans by BITA or the State for a new boat, period, in an e-mail from BITA's Chairperson. A couple of years ago I was told a future boat from the State was nixed because of the declining numbers using the current State's boat, the Emerald Isle. It might be worth further looking into just to confirm the information as I understand it.
Kirk D. McBride
K.D. McBride
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:16 am
Location: Kalamazoo & Beaver Island

Re: WTH

Post by K.D. McBride »

Anyone can contact BITA. They have always been very obliging with information for me and will give you the latest information on a new boat.
Kirk D. McBride
K.A. Pike
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:14 pm

Re: WTH

Post by K.A. Pike »

We just talked the other day about going to Beaver Island in 2020. It's been a few years since we've been there and with the addition of a son-in-law we thought it would be a nice family get a way.

A quick look at the ferry website and a calculator put the cost of the ferry round trip at: $708
( still have to either stash the moped trailer someplace or pay to leave it with the second car which I wouldn't be to excited about. I can see it an easy target for a thief left in an unsecure lot for a week. I'm sure the cost to take it over would be $175+)

5 tickets: 325
1 Toyota 4Runner: 230
two dogs: 48
two mopeds: 80
parking lot second car: 25
trailer: ????

So even before we factored in the cost to get to the dock, lodging and all the other misc. involved in island life we start right out with a $700-850 ferry tab.

We're going to have the travel cost, lodging and misc. cost no matter where we go, but at this point the ferry cost is making for a rainy day.

A quick look at Washington Island, all things being the same it looks like the ferry cost would be $275-350.

Just a real world look at cost.
Sour grapes
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:46 pm
Location: Beaver island
Contact:

Re: WTH

Post by Sour grapes »

You are comparing a 30 minute boat ride that has up to 25 trips each day to a 2+ hr boat ride? You feel the cost should be the same?

Real world cost should also include real world facts. Stop embellishing.

Have a great time on Washington Island.

:roll:
K.A. Pike
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:14 pm

Re: WTH

Post by K.A. Pike »

So lets look at the operating cost of Washington Island Vs. Beaver Island Ferry.

Both have to load and unload. Washington Island 1 hour round trip. Beaver Island is a little over 4 hours round trip.

You're telling me that 3 hours of cruising cost $400-500 per family of 5, a car, two mopeds and two dogs to operate the BIBCo. Sorry no embellishing needed here, the numbers don't lie.

The attitude of Sour Grapes is the reason the BIBCo has 16,000+ less riders. How many cottage rental losses does that equate to, how many less people spending $$ at the grocery store, the deli, the hardware store, the ice cream shop, the gift shops and the two hotels.

I'm not going to get in a pissin' match with Sour Grapes, but you want real world facts....it's a fact 16,000 passengers spoke with their feet and money. :-({|=

Yes as a matter of fact we will enjoy Washington Island and leave you standing by the dock at Beaver Island wondering were everyone is .... =D> =D> =D>
Darby Campbell
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:30 pm
Location: Western Subs - Chicago

Re: WTH

Post by Darby Campbell »

Let me begin with we love Beaver Island, always have, always will. We spent several years there over 4th of July week with family and friends. Home is the western subs of Chicago and we now have a summer home in Sister Bay, Wisconsin on the Door Peninsula and near Washington Island. I think people have made some very good points here that I can only slightly add to in the conversation. To Kirk McBride's point, I did reach out to the Transportation Authority with no success or response to my concerns a few years ago. To K.A. Pike's point, I am a chemical engineer and not an economist but in my opinion Beaver Island has over priced itself to the point of diminishing returns and no longer being a viable vacation alternative compared to other locations that offer the same or more and at a lower cost. I think the declining number of passengers on the boat proves that point out. To Sour Grapes point, I don't believe that Mr. Pike is saying the cost of getting to Washington Island should be the same as Beaver Island. Only that it becomes a more economic alternative for tourists, vacationers and families for similar experiences. I would be remiss if I said it was all Beaver Island. Charlevoix is also a big deterrent. The last few years of going to Beaver Island, we commented on the fact that we would rather drive the Chicago Loop in rush hour traffic than to drive through Charlevoix to catch the boat. When getting to the dock became a tension filled nightmare. There are only about 3 parking places to unload luggage and purchase tickets. There was seldom anyone assisting with the luggage and no apparent organization. The hair brain who decided to put a brewery at the dock compounded the issues ten fold. There were constantly semi trucks lined up to deliver freight and blocking traffic. When getting off the boat there was never anyone to direct you to the secret and different location they would constantly put the luggage rack each time.
These are simply my opinions and observations so please feel free to shoot them apart. We are happy summering in Door County. A house warming gift was a sign for our cottage that reads Let Us Show You The Door. We love to show it off and days trips to Washington Island with family and friends. I think you need a bigger sign that says Please Come And Welcome To Beaver Island but first you need to address several issues people are trying to point out.
DC
Sour grapes
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:46 pm
Location: Beaver island
Contact:

Re: WTH

Post by Sour grapes »

getting-here-wifl.jpg
getting-here-wifl.jpg (11.91 KiB) Viewed 4106 times
Washington Island Ferry picture above. BIBCO pictured below.

My point is you can not compare a 30 minute ride (5 miles shore to shore) in a small boat like Washington Island to BIBCO. The payroll, overhead cost, fuel expense, logistics, scheduling, etc. has to be drastically different.

As far as my attitude..my attitude is that you simply stop embellishing. I am not defending BIBCO, I am just tired of your lack of transparency.

And Darby...glad to see you are back to solidify your alter egos opinions. :roll:
Attachments
images.jpeg
images.jpeg (10.67 KiB) Viewed 4104 times
K.A. Pike
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:14 pm

Re: WTH

Post by K.A. Pike »

FACTS:
$700-850 Beaver Island
$275-350 Washington Island
$425-500 difference
No embellishing there and I don't know how I can be any more transparent...The cost of the ferry and the lack of transparency to justify the cost is KILLING the once a year weekly tourist/vacationing family trip.

Best Wishes Sour Grapes, enjoy the rest of your holiday.
Sour grapes
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:46 pm
Location: Beaver island
Contact:

Re: WTH

Post by Sour grapes »

Again, you are not comparing apples to apples.

I am not a fan of the cost to get here either, and I would like to see change. The flight prices have also gone up in our past twenty years on the island. My kids are also adults and they struggle to bring thier kids and extended families here as well.

My point is that you can not compare BI to Washington Island for cost. You have two very different islands. If we are going to Foster change then we have to be level headed, factual and objective. Qualities that often lack in the Forum.

Lets focus on what we can do to grow BI. I don't think we can move BI 5miles from Charlevoix, and I personally am not interested in being on one of thier small shuttle boats to defray cost.

What I would like to see is the BIBCO, and the airlines take a hard look at how they can increase tourism by collaboration with the Chamber and local business owners to fill the seats and get people here. It is a tough balance. I did not buy in TC or Mackinaw Island for a reason. I enjoy the quiet.
Post Reply