FOR A CONSOLIDATED BEAVER ISLAND TOWNSHIP

[meadefamily]

Carol,

Can you post the link and where you found these numbers?

I was unable to find them doing a quick search.

Are you using actual March 2017 year ends? I had not seen St. James yet.

Thanks. Kathe

[Andy's Grooming Barn]

Carol is just trying to post things differently so it doesn't look like they would slash EMS (reposting the same thing in a different manner doesn't make it better let alone accurate) but that is still their intent, also apparently they want to make sure there is no extra money in any accounts, god forbid something major breaks down or needs replaced in any area. We wouldn't run our household budgets that way but we would want to a township budget? A budget is just an estimate of what your yearly costs are but nobody know what will be the true costs until the year is over this is all common sense. Is your bank account empty at the end of the year, I would hope not.

Also keep in mind the insurance money that comes in to EMS is not stable, you make get a chunk this year and get hardly any in next year there is no way of knowing so you have to keep extra in that account to accommodate that flex, my understanding is that some of the insurance money that came in this year goes back to 3 years. Also you can not determine how many calls you will get year to year, this isn't money you can count on for every year as you are doing. Also remember if you want to keep getting these volunteers to do EMS you need to at least give them good equipment so you will have to have that in your budget as well.

[Wkohls]

Hey, Carol . . .

The amounts that you show as revenue includes the cash balance carried over from the prior year. As a result, revenues are WAY OVERSTATED!

As I wrote earlier, tax revenues are collected in the fourth quarter of each fiscal year.

Cash balances will be at their highest point at March 31st which is necessary to sustain operations for the subsequent months.

By including the cash balances, you are double counting the revenues . . . the cash balances at March 31st, plus the taxes to be collected in the fourth quarter . . . which skews your conclusion.

[Andy's Grooming Barn]

I totaled up what I believe is a correct number of what was overstated in their purposed budget, surprised we didn't notice it earlier, $888,550.00 that isn't accurate. You can not claim revenue of taxes twice in some cases when you only get them once. Since some of those taxes we already in the general fund in March but you also counted them as come in for the year as tax revenue. You need to redo your budget and get accurate numbers.

[carolburton]

Bill and Andy,

I appreciate your comments but now I have more questions for your input. If I can't simply put together these numbers or have done it wrong please answer this. I just went to basic math keeping the budget as is no changes.

If you combine the yearly revenue from each township (which should be about the same collection each year +/- late or non payments, etc.) and the proposed budgets each year (already out and available for both townships) shouldn't that correctly determine what is over or under? If so... then my assumption is correct? If not what are your totals? And please share with me because right now through my simple math I don't see why Peaine taxes have to rise and St. James not just come down to match if it shows an over amount?

Keep it simple! This is how I would do my books. I bring in x amount of dollars and need to subtract x amount for expenses = leftovers for other stuff.

Carol

[carolburton]

Andy,

Don't tell me what I am doing or put me in the lump category that has formed please! This has nothing to do with anything but Revenue - Expenses = $

No hidden agenda! If we were to keep every expense as it is right now (both townships combined) what would we have left over to make a change? This is my only thought pattern! Very simple ?

Carol

[Andy's Grooming Barn]

Simply Carol if you look at their/your proposed budget they are literally putting tax revenues in two areas. Example look at the Fire in the proposal it is listed fund balance $305,703 (this has the taxes in it already from last year to be used for this year) then they list Property taxes (under the fund balance in the revenue) for each township totaling $107,170. How are you collecting double the taxes for the year, your numbers are not correct. You are showing more income than what is there because you are listing the taxes twice. Sorry the money isn't there, you need to fix your budget as it isn't right and is misleading to the tax payer.

Hopefully I have explained it well enough that you understand it but this is precisely why I agree with kathe as there should have been a professional third party doing this, most people do not have a financial degree and so figuring this out can be difficult and this isn't a time to make errors that would mislead the tax payer they need accurate information to make sure they make a educated decision.

[Andy's Grooming Barn]

For that question you would have to get Bill and Kitty to answer. But it isn't like there is a bunch of money left over in each township each year, the townships do not levy the full amount that they could but only what they need and they adjust that each year so they are not over charging taxes for what they do not need, the reason for doing the budge it to figure out what they do need to Levy. There will never be a huge lump in the end as you are looking for.

Really that isn't relevant in my opinion because the taxes would still go up in one township and down in another so unless you can show significant saves which that hasn't been shown because your numbers or not correct then there isn't a good reason to do it.

[carolburton]

Andy! No you have not! Give me a number REVENUE - BUDGET = WHAT $ NUMBER?

All this talk about part year blah blah is of no matter. Look at what it is for a year. We don't have that many changes. Guess it close to fact or don't give me any more answers. I am NOT looking at any proposed anything.

Answer my question directly or you will not change my mind to no. What are those numbers? REVENUE - BUDGET = WHAT $ NUMBER

And Kathe put some work into your comments not just babbling a bunch of repeat stuff if you care so much.

Carol

[Andy's Grooming Barn]

I guess I don't know what your asking for I didn't say anything about part year? I am not sure what number you want? Your revenue for a year would be less the $888,550 on the budget purposed as that is the amount that was double stated, is that what you are asking? Again I think if you need more information you would want to get with Kitty and Bill and ask what they had left over from their budget at the end of the year..................

[Andy's Grooming Barn]

If I use the proposed budget here, which I am not sure how accurate everything is and take the revenues (deduct the $888,550 that was inaccurately over state in tax revenue) then take the total of the expenditures it is showing we would be short almost $100,000 for the year. Again I don't even know how accurate the budget numbers are here so none of this can be counted on as fact this is me just figuring up numbers from this budget and removing the overstated taxes.

I am really not sure if that helped you at all Carol but maybe just call Bill and Kitty and see if they can get you the numbers you need, not sure.

[meadefamily]

Carol,

That was not very nice. I asked you where your information that created your spreadsheet was from. I can not find the numbers you are referring to on either website.

How unfortunate for us tax payers that asking for your source to create your spreadsheet is babbling.

I was not being negative, I was just looking for answers.

Kathe

[carolburton]

Andy,

Thank you for the input you could give. I just want combined REVENUE - EXPENSES = WHAT $ AMOUT DIFFERENCE for the year.

That is calculable and if I am wrong in my numbers I would like to see it.

Kathe,

Websites and budgets from past. Look it up! If you get different #'s let me know. Sorry you feel I am not being nice but that is over and with you it is getting hard to feel like you are not sticking needles in to see what happens. Productive talk about consolidation is the topic. Research something and share actual findings. I share my factual idea/opinion from my research what is yours?

Carol

[Shirley Cole]

My question is whether we can come together as one for the betterment of all. This reminds me of Ireland: a divided island of 26 free counties and 6 under the crown. Yet Ireland as a whole remains 32 counties, and most desire to be a nation once again. Perhaps Brexit will be the solution for Ireland to regain her independence. Most of our Beaver Island ancestors hailed from Ireland and hated that it was a divided country. I find it ironic that the same war is being fought again on the island they made their home. I own a home in St. James, but have also owned several parcels of land in Peaine Township. I’ve always thought of Beaver Island as ONE entity, however. Just as Ireland prays to be united, I pray our own island will be united. I’ve followed the posts for awhile and have concluded a consolidation would save money overall and hopefully bring the island together to discuss and vote on important issues. Since Beaver Island is not my primary residence (yet), I cannot vote in this decision. I encourage others, however, to really examine the facts and figures and think about what being ONE community could mean. Everyone would have a vested interest in the well being of the entire island, not just their portion. We depend on each other for so much that I feel our dependency would be strengthened by one independent Beaver Island Township. Please vote yes for consolidation, and let us unite our people, our strengths, and our resources.

[carolburton]

Shirley,

Very nicely stated. Thank you for being so thoughtful in your ideas.

Carol