Putting our Best Foot Forward

Open Discussion - for our Readers, Islanders, and Web Site Visitors alike. Discussion regarding any and all aspects of Beaver Island are welcome here. Also a place for general Beaver Island conversation and discussion.

Moderator: Gillespie

DeerwoodLodge
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:41 pm

Putting our Best Foot Forward

Post by DeerwoodLodge »

I have been a regular follower of the Forum for years now, utilizing it as a way to keep track of the big and small goings on on the island, but rarely do I comment.

For the past six years it has been as a property owner with a vested interest in keeping track of the community announcements, community services based issues, island economy issues, election issues, etc. Originally, however, and before we purchased our first property, I had followed the forum as a way to gauge the type of community we were planning on investing in and to get a feel for the dynamic of the island and to make sure it was the type of place that we would enjoy as we moved from a 2 week per year vacationer to part time residents, to down the road full time retiree residents of the island.

I want to take the opportunity to suggest that as a community, whether it be potential visitors, annual visitors, long time residents, full time residents or part timers, that we refocus our efforts as it pertains to this Forum in order to consistently and constantly 'put our best foot forward' with regards to the image we create and perpetuate to the outside world.

Meg and I invested in this island for a variety of reasons, from it being where we want to retire after having vacationed here regularly since our sons were born, to having a desire thru active participation to positively impact the island economy, tourism, and ultimately the community as a whole. However, as we have spent time getting to know more and more islanders the topic of discussion always seems to find its way to this Forum and the message we as a community send to the outside world.

Acknowledging immediately and without reservation that it is our basic human nature to hold many different beliefs and ideologies.....and that there can be great pleasure in healthy debate, healthy discussion, and even in disagreeing, as long as we have a respect for the social contract and are willing to give the respect we expect to receive, I still want to suggest we find a way to utilize this Forum in such a manner that maintains awareness as to how the outside world views us.

Potential vacationers come to this Forum to gauge if they'd like to spend time here.

Potential property owners come to this Forum as a means of researching what they can of the community.

Potential businesses, potential investors, etc all come to this Forum as well.

It is no secret to any of us this island depends on tourism and second home investors more than any other factors. Positively and productively marketing the island to the outside world is the single most important thing we can do to ensuring the future of BI is strong. With all the challenges the island faces as a remote, tough to access, expensive place to live, we need to do everything we can to help ourselves, by helping others to see this is a magical place, in all ways including socially.

Truth is, I truly believe it is a magical place, socially and in every other way. The people of BI have been so good to us for years, and have gone amazingly far out of their way to assist us with everything we have needed.

This Forum needs to reflect that to the outside world.

If we desire to utilize it to illustrate and work through our political differences, our complaints, etc, I strongly propose we set up a 'tax payers only' branch of the Forum, password protected, in order to discuss those issues best traditionally saved for official community meetings, after dinner discussions, etc. In the age of social media we CAN have a voice all over the world, but that doesn't mean we should.

Meg and I want the island to prosper. We have made a sizable investment reflecting both our belief in the island and our commitment to it. I despise the idea of this Forum sending a message to the outside world that undermines what we all want, and frankly need.

Please, lets help all of those who work so hard to make this island function and present well, and provide it with the opportunity to be successful for residents and visitors alike. We can disagree all day long on how to get there, but that is for community meetings where all the facts are presented, all the key participants are available, and the public record can then be seen by all if they want to.

This Forum should be about the magical place this is so the outside world wants to come here, invest here, and stay here. If its a place where we argue and drive people away, lets just shut it down before it shuts us down.

Thanks
Vince Ebersoldt
Deerwood
DonH
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:39 am
Location: Florida/BI

Post by DonH »

Vince: Everything you said makes sense, but shutting down an informative forum is not the way to go. We just need to direct people to the Chamber of Commerce sight that extolls the virtues of Beaver Island. Otherwise maybe people posting should state that this is their opinion and is not the opinion of the forum.
Darby Campbell
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:30 pm
Location: Western Subs - Chicago

Post by Darby Campbell »

Mr. Ebersoldt, Very eloquent in your expression of thought and purpose. Clare and I had hoped to do just as you have done and retire on Beaver Island. I'm sad to say that at this time we abandoned those plans for several reasons but first and foremost is the cost of the boat, preferred mode of transportation for visitors. With children, grandchildren and friends, the cost of the boat has become prohibitive for them to visit, making Beaver Island a beautiful place but very lonely and isolated for two retirees.
I, at times, have been outspoken on the forum and know that people read it and form impressions based on what is posted, some good, some bad. I was an avid reader of the forum for several years before posting. It was my hope to have a positive impact for change and become involved in local politics from a distance and then run for office once moved to the island. That light has slowly dimed and I see little chance for it reigniting or things changing much as a result of my action or in our retirement years in Paradise.
DC
Ron Wojan
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:36 pm
Location: Beaver Island
Contact:

Post by Ron Wojan »

Great post Vince. We need to exercise caution. Beaver Island is a fragile place as far as our economy is concerned. I donâ??t have a problem with the disagreements or any legitimate concerns that people have about costs to get here or whether or not we should be consolidated. Where it becomes a problem is when people wonâ??t identify themselves or they get nasty, offended, condescending, bitter, or otherwise upset. We always tried to damper that at public meetings or stop it if it got too bad. I actually had the deputy come to a meeting one time. As township board members we were threatened to be be sued individually and collectively. It all got resolved peacefully and we were all friends in the end. But it was contained and settled internally and not on the internet. No community is immune to differences of opinion. Thatâ??s normal. We do fight just like any large family. Hopefully, at the end of the day we can still meet a the post office or Daddy Franks and even if weâ??re still not in agreement , we can still be friends and agree to disagree. We do need a few more ground rules. For instance- whoâ??s an Islander and whoâ??s not. Letâ??s put a number on it. If you move to New York youâ??re a New Yorker. If you go to Florida for 3 months each year , youâ??re a snow bird. So what's fair? I say if you have an investment in property and have been coming here more than (letâ??s say 5 years) then youâ??re an Islander. If you have what you think is a legitimate concern about anything on the Island then go to the meetings and become part of the solution. Donâ??t sit on the outside stirring the pot. I believe the boat company will be sensitive to the price concerns and will do better if itâ??s within their means and they can maintain a viable company. Let,s not assume or insinuate they are corrupt on the internet. Competition is good. People want one township. So for such a small place should we have one airline? One construction company? One real estate office? One restaurant? One snowplow? Letâ??s be realistic. You know you can fight with a brother one day and defend him to your own death (if heâ??s threatened) the next. Weâ??re all a bunch of proud people. We have to be to live and be successful here. With todays technology we just need to check our egos and firearms at the door.
Ronald L. Wojan
BI Pirate
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:41 pm
Location: Whiskey Island

Post by BI Pirate »

Ron, I like your thinking. A couple of suggestions. I'm in Key West and people know I'm from the north, so I'm a Snowbird whether I'm here for a week, a month, 3 months or all winter. I buy drinks for them, they buy drinks for me. We do not put numbers on who belongs and who doesn't or who has been here longer. Why put numbers on it. I've been in those islands up there for 200 plus years and not sure if I'm an Islander or not. I have friends and you do too who claim their families were the ones who welcomed the Native Americans to the island. Are they the Islanders? Why put 5 years on becoming an Islander and how do we know when they reach Islander tenure to be called an Islander? If we now put a timeline on it, 5 years, that smacks of amnesty for all those who have been here longer and not considered an Islander. Why not say that anyone who comes to the island for the summer, moves, buys, invests and so on is an Islander, period. The issue that separates us is not with title or name of Islander or Hayseeder. The issue is with having an impactful voice and opinion that one has to be heard and respected for their thoughts and contributions.
I say whether a person was on the island when Noah built his boat or just got off the last boat, everyone is welcomed and respected for what they have to offer for the island's success. In fact the last person to come to the island is more important than those of us who live here. We are the past but they are the future and we need each other working together if we are going to survive.
Gotta go. Two more hours and I have to toast the sunset.
8) 8) 8)
Skull&CrossBones
AEW
Posts: 614
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:38 am
Location: Beaver Island/The world

Post by AEW »

I think people need to know the truth about the inner workings of the Island. They should learn about the long list of scandals, gross incompetence and unethical practices in the past 2 decades.

If people are considering investing large amounts of money on the Island they have the right to know what they are getting into.

Tell them that if they buy a one bedroom carriage house on Sand Bay they will be paying close to $7000.00 in property taxes a year in for a summer house. (True story) ($583.00 a month in taxes)

Tell them that they will pay close to $9000.00 in property taxes for a 300 foot crappy piece of beach near the south end with a 2 bedroom, one story house that looks like a mobile home with log siding on it. And when you want to pass it down to your Son's they say they can't afford the 9k a year taxes so Mom will just sell the family summer cabin (True story) ($750.00 a month in property taxes)

Tell them they will pay $4000.00 a year in property taxes for a lake front piece of land with just a large barn on it. No house just a barn. (True Story)

Tell them that the school spends over $52,000 a year per student.

Tell them that there are some employees that make between $109,000- $142,000 pay and benefits in a school with 38 kids. And that just one of the schools secretaries makes $92,000 a year pay and benefits. For 180 days a year of work. (Thats $500 per day)

Tell them that ferrys and freight all over the US cost half of what it costs on the Island.

Tell them it has some of the highest gas prices in the US.

Tell them you have to pay over $300 per year just to have an electrical meter box whether you use electricity or not. To not tell them the truth is wrong.

Tell them that the school has a no bid policy for any repair/maintenance less than $5000 per job and that relatives of school employees get those contracts and billed EXACTLY $5000. 00.

Tell them the truth. Then let them compare investment dollars with any of the hundreds of other North Michigan communities and see where they choose to invest.

Watch the 18 hour court video of the trial over the Airport fiasco that cost the taxpayers millions of dollars. (You will see the same cast of characters that still dominate the boards)

Start a new survey of ALL property owners on the Island. Listen to them, the ones who pay the taxes. Their voice matters too. There are thousands of them.

Don't hide anymore. Fix the Island and they will come. Fix it, It doesn't have to be like this. Stop running the Island like a criminal syndicate. Speak out.

Post all monthly budgets and expenses to the penny here on the forum each month from ALL tax funded entities on the Island.

Nothing changes if nothing changes. Clean it up and they will come. There are some good people who can turn it around. Be bold, be brave and fight.

I found a place a thousand times better to live where my investment will actually grow and taxes are pennies compared to the Island.

I'm selling.........
AE Wirth
meadefamily
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:35 pm

Post by meadefamily »

"peace of mind is much better than giving them a piece of your mind". J.P. McEvoy

Sometimes when you are speechless by someone's else's perspective this is a qoute I remember. I hope you find peace at your new home Adam. I have found mine on Beaver Island.

Vince and Ron,

Thank you for your wise words.

Kathe
Last edited by meadefamily on Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
meadefamily
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:35 pm

Post by meadefamily »

BI Pirate...you have some great points above. We actually agreed on something! You should check out some of Mcevoys qoutes...they may seem familiar to you.

Have a good night in the Keys, I hear Low Tide hideaway Tiki Bar is pretty good!!
:D
Last edited by meadefamily on Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ron Wojan
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:36 pm
Location: Beaver Island
Contact:

Post by Ron Wojan »

Pirate, Your best post ever. Thank you. You made your point without poking me. God job! And I agree we probably shouldn't put a # on it. I have always welcomed new people and all the good ideas they bring with them. Too bad about a few bad apples.
Adam, I donâ??t agree with anything you said with the exception of the taxes. Property taxes are basically out of our control-except for the millage we levy and what the assessor determines the property is worth. Tell me what Levyâ??s weâ??ve done that you think are excessive or inappropriate for our circumstances. We need everything the mainland does for fire protection, health center, EMS, etc. etc. And not a lot of people to pay for them. Assessments for tax purposes are mostly determined by what people are currently paying for the property. The county does a Sales study each year to see what the propertyâ??s sold for. They then compare it to what all similar properties are assessed. If similar properties are low then we are obligated to fix it or the county will create a multiplying â??Factorâ?￾ across the whole township. I know, I sat on the board of review for years. We tried to circumvent that by placing the increased values on the areas that were selling for higher prices and not on people inland or on homesteads that were not going up in value. We. Tried to fix it with the least impact we could put on all taxpayers. We canâ??t have a community without a school. We are much further out in the Lake than most communities and it does cost a lot more to get here than to most communities. I know for a fact that The airlines here are currently charging the same price now that people paid 20years ago to get from Mackinaw City to Mackinaw Island. A flight of about 5 miles at most. We are 32 miles out. I sat on the Boat Company board of directors for many years. I have the # 1 stock certificate to buy our boats back after a forced merger. The forced merger on our lifeline is one of the reasons that long term Islanders are skeptical of new people that think they can run this place better than we can. They lost so much money so fast, it was ridiculous. They almost sold our boats to recoup their loses. So, without all the facts, itâ??s easy to criticize prices .When we get people like you who like to just fire away without all the facts, we like for you to come to the board meetings or run for a seat on the board. I canâ??t tell you how many times (once youâ??re on the inside of these companies) the biggest complainers get a whole new attitude. Itâ??s very difficult running a small company these days. Owning your own business is a license for a lot of people to get into your pocket. Iâ??d be a wealthy man had it not been for insurance and taxes. Overhead on a small business is just awful. Thereâ??s a limit on how much you can charge for anything. Think of Alaska and the cost of living there. Itâ??s expensive to live far away. Iâ??m sorry about your bitterness about the island I know a bit about your experiences here but I also think you could have done a little more to help yourself.
Ronald L. Wojan
stardust
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:11 pm

wow

Post by stardust »

WOW Thats was Saturday reading at it's finest. MY two cents "If you are going to live on an island before moving there understand IT IS AN ISLAND" when you live in Hawaii and pay $6.00 bucks for a gallon of Milk at costco do you Bitch of course, But you knew that from the onset. Great place to retire too same thing with beaver island, It pains me when I see the (I was going to move there but's)post on the forum, could of should of would of does not cut it. Put your big boy pants on buy some land and build or buy a house. Investing on the island in less your going build a new gas station or market forget it (A dollar store would kill 70% of the gas station and markets profits (wink wink) If you have a problem paying to having something done DO it yourself. On Tax's if you don't want pay for the view find a piece of property that the tax's are not killing you.

Jeff Gray ESQ
714 499 3712
AEW
Posts: 614
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:38 am
Location: Beaver Island/The world

Post by AEW »

Ron Wojan, I was wrong with one of my numbers. There is one employee who makes $147,000 a year pay and benefits. Not $142,000 like I originally said. Everything else is spot on.

Ron send me your email address and I will send the FOIA I got from the school. (That I was charged over $300 to get). It covers all pay and benefits for the 47 full and part time employees, board members and "Sub teachers" for the 38 students. It also has information on the high maintenance cost of the relatively brand new building etc. It breaks it down to the penny and who got what by name.

If you would like to talk to the the 3 property owners I mentioned in the first post I would be happy to contact them and see if they would be willing to talk to you. But you know well you can easily call any of the hundreds of non homestead clients you have built for and ask them what their taxes are. The 3rd guy with the property with the barn with no house whose property tax bill is apx 4k is me.

If ANYONE wants a copy of the Beaver Island Schools detailed budget and expenses please message me with your email address and I will happily send it to you. Or email me at wirtha64@gmail.com.

And yes, it is over $52,000 per student per year.

For comparison Washington Island has 68 kids and 11 employees from Principles to custodian. Mackinaw Island has 72 kids and 12 employees from Principle to Janitor. Both of those schools spent about $21,000 per student per year. State Average is about $11,400 I believe.

Ron, you can't fix the Island until you identify the problems. The same people have been making the decisions for decades and the Island is dying because of it. Selfishness, greed, corruption, incompetence, nepotism and cronyism is not how to run a community. But I understand because it is a cultural norm in the minds of many there.

When appointed and self-appointed island leaders learn empathy and respect for those wanting to invest in the Island things will get better. There are some great people on the Island. I hope they step forward to try to lead in a new direction.

Cutting property taxes = Island growth
AE Wirth
islandliving
Posts: 526
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:10 am
Location: Beaver Island, Michigan

Post by islandliving »

Adam, why canâ??t the information you have be made available to the public and why did it cost you $300.00 ?
AEW
Posts: 614
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:38 am
Location: Beaver Island/The world

Post by AEW »

Because they did not want the information to get out John. They thought charging for it would stop me. Someone from the Beaver Island Property Owners Association even called me and asked me not to put it on the forum. I have been sitting on it for 2 months. Done sitting.

"Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants"- Louis Brandeis
AE Wirth
AEW
Posts: 614
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:38 am
Location: Beaver Island/The world

Post by AEW »

John, you bring up a good point. It should be mandatory that every tax funded entity on the Island Island display detailed budgets and operation costs updated monthly on township websites, the forum, library, both township halls and posted in the facilities itself. Fire Department, School, EMS, Forrest View, Boat Dock, Historical Society, Health Center, Transfer Station, Townships etc.

The Island has to make economic sense to invest in. It has to be competitive.
AE Wirth
islandliving
Posts: 526
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:10 am
Location: Beaver Island, Michigan

Post by islandliving »

So you could legally post it just as the township budgets have been posted recently on the forum??

John McCafferty.
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