Forum Rules | FAQ | Memberlist | Private Messages

Main Discussion Forum | Marketplace / Trade Forum 
Interest find on township consolidations
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 14, 15, 16  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Beaver Island Forum Index -> Main Beaver Island Open Discussion Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Andy's Grooming Barn



Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Posts: 177

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:01 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

Kathe-
From what I can see is there is no true advantage, you would be paying higher taxes to have a say so that is already being done for what it is worth, St. james people are already on the board speaking on the behalf of the people but there are guidelines etc. to follow both with BITA and BIBCO so you would be limited it isn't like they can just say lower shipping and ticket cost....just doesn't work that way.

BIBCO/BITA isn't like with the transfer station that mileage is paid to it and the financial decisions are made by the boards. No township money is involved with BIBCO/BITA and the state has guidelines on the BITA board that have to be followed, St. James doesn't get to appoint members to the BIBCO board so you still have no say so to that area at all, they are privately owned by stockholders if people want say so in BIBCO then buy stock.

Again I am explaining this the best I understand it as it is confusing but I see no advantage to be a part of BITA, defiantly not a tax increase to be a part of that in my opinion.
_________________
Andy Kohls
Andy's Grooming and Boarding Barn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
islandliving



Joined: 21 Nov 2015
Posts: 280
Location: Beaver Island, Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:32 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

We have heard a few times from Carol that consolidation will eliminate nepotism? Is that a fact of consolidation? Brad Grassmick stated once that the Islands future lies in the hands of few family and friends. So consolidation will fix this? I know an easier way, it’s called an election.

John McCafferty
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Wkohls



Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:40 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

Please see https://wkohls.wixsite.com/consolidationinfo for fully-documented facts relating to the impact of township consolidation on property taxes. Many thanks to Jack Gallagher for his help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mojave Bob



Joined: 28 Jan 2016
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:37 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

Bill --

Thanks for crunching the numbers. It is very helpful to see it in actual numbers. Based on what you have presented, it would be expected that the consolidation is likely to be more popular in St James than in Peaine.

The taxes on the island are not cheap. But, when I bought my property, I investigated what the taxes were, and I decided I could live with it. When we had a millage vote for EMS last year, I was pleased to see it pass (I have no vote), because EMS is good for the island, and who knows - someone I love may need it someday. I support the millage for the school, although I have no school-age children or grandchildren who will ever benefit directly from it. But, the school is the life-blood of the community. If we lose it, we lose the island.

So, you see, I am not heavily motivated by the idea of lowering taxes. Taxes serve a purpose, and I will always support paying for what is worthwhile. So ... What I am about to ask is not intended to incite a riot - it is an honest question. Considering that the St James economic/business "engine" supports the material needs of Peaine, is a leveling of the tax levy inappropriate? Yes, Peaine pays a lower levy now, but should they? Is there a valid reason why it should be so? Again, please do not flame me - I am just asking a reasonable question, seeking a reasonable answer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wkohls



Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:49 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

Bob . . .

Thanks for your post. Before I continue, I would respectfully ask that you share your identity. Others may view your posts with more credibility if you choose to do so.

In my initial post, I noted that . . .

If we were staring with a “clean sheet of paper,” it’s unlikely that anyone would design our current structure comprised of two townships and, at least to my knowledge, no one believes that two townships are theoretically superior to one township.

The question before the voters, however, is much more complicated. Concisely stated, the questions is . . . do the net tangible benefits of consolidation justify the consequential expenditures that will be required to complete the consolidation?


I hope that you will now agree that . . .

Many of the so-called “benefits” of consolidation could be more easily achieved by other means.

Merely shifting financial burdens or benefits among Islanders does not make the Island better off.

Peaine taxpayers would face higher tax levies and its voters would cede significant control in the event of consolidation; it’s difficult to see what they would get in return.

It now appears that the pro-consolidation folks may have an agenda relating to the airport as well as some sort of vision for a wellness center possibly supported by tax dollars.


In your post, you state that “the St James economic/business "engine" supports the material needs of Peaine” and ask, “is a leveling of the tax levy inappropriate?”

My initial thoughts follow for your consideration . . .

There are a number of businesses located in Peaine Township that are vital to the Island’s wellbeing, including Island Airways and Island Energies (a.k.a., the Station.)

I could argue that the St. James economic/business engine is dependent upon the Peaine’s property owners.

As I noted in an earlier post, until recently, Peaine paid a lower millage rate for EMS. That was resolved amicably between the townships. If there are other items to be discussed, by all means, let’s have the discussion.

I am sure that I will have additional thoughts to share in the comings day. But I wanted to respond in a prompt manner.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tkludt



Joined: 17 Aug 2009
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:03 pm 
Post subject: Crickets?
Reply with quote

Bill,nice work and thanks for putting some facts to this subject. I have to admit I was surprised that a petition for this was circulated apparently amongst a chosen few. So much for being inclusive on the island.

Now all we hear is crickets. What a pleasant sound.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
meadefamily



Joined: 17 Jun 2014
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:00 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

I am pleased to see that Bill and Jack Gallagher worked on this together and did such a fine job of providing facts.

The calm is refreshing. Now if we can just get people to use their real names...

Kathe Meade
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
islandliving



Joined: 21 Nov 2015
Posts: 280
Location: Beaver Island, Michigan

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:25 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

The calm is probably created by diligent work being done to come up with a reason of why consoldidation is a great idea!! Since our “Leader” and several other citizens have come up with some pretty good reasons why it is not. Actually excellent reasons!! Thank you all.

John McCafferty.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
megsing3



Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 118
Location: Ludington

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:55 am 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

It is not calm, it is consideration and reading new information - and looking at a whole bunch of new ovals and arrows.

It is noticeable that the new anti consolidation posts are spread within a day over many new threads. It is a normal and often very productive practice used to exhaust and confuse the electorate. Perhaps that is not the intention but it IS often the technique used to produce encouragement of the status quo and eliminate revolution.

So, in the late 80’s there was a discussion of similar topic. Let’s say 1988? IF I read the multiple threads correctly, part of the purpose was to illuminate the the tendency of history repeating itself. The decision was made then not to consolidate... That’s fine, but when I was 5 or 6 years old I pretty much only cared about looking at the new toy museum and running down mount pisgah.
Within 30 years our world has shifted, and grown. What was the world, the island like 30 years prior, in 1958? 1928?
Making the same decisions is not an argument for remaining a divided community.

Think of...
Finances, representation, responsibility, accountability. Fairness, economy, sustainability, environment.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
meadefamily



Joined: 17 Jun 2014
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:09 am 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

Meg

I would think the website was added in a comment on the threads so people who were following certain ones would be aware of the information.

As far as several threads, I am not sure that is the case. A few who wanted to voice thier thoughts created thier own thread. This particular thread is very long and difficult to follow.

Kathe
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Andy's Grooming Barn



Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Posts: 177

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:02 am 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

Meg,
I am sorry that you took it that way about how the website was put on the forum, Kathe is correct, it was intended to try and get the information out to everyone no matter which one of the threads they were reading about consolidation. There was no manipulation intended if you look at the website there was a lot of time and work put into just facts and figures as people have been asking for.

If you feel differently you are welcome to gather your own facts and put them out there, I truly think for the voters to be able to make the best decision for the island they need to see all sides of the issue. If people are civil to each other, use their own names and present facts I think the forum is a great place to get the information out to the pubic.

I personally will only place my vote on FACTS.
_________________
Andy Kohls
Andy's Grooming and Boarding Barn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
islandliving



Joined: 21 Nov 2015
Posts: 280
Location: Beaver Island, Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:39 am 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

I think people would be happy the website was placed to the public in anyway possible. I hope the information is made possible and adverstised in way more places than the forum. People need to start reading the facts of consolidation instead of fairly tale stories of days gone by.

John McCafferty
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ron Wojan



Joined: 13 Feb 2018
Posts: 9
Location: Beaver Island

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:50 am 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

Voting blindly without knowing all the facts and potential consequences. Isn’t the same as Nancy Pelosi saying “we need to pass this bill so we can see what’s in it”.?
_________________
Ronald L. Wojan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
sbsp



Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 443
Location: Beaver Island, Kalamazoo, Fripp Island, SC

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:59 am 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

Ron -
Point well taken. I think you are also thinking of the recent tax reform bill. No doubt Washington is screwed up but we should not let that cascade down to us.
_________________
Kirk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ron Wojan



Joined: 13 Feb 2018
Posts: 9
Location: Beaver Island

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:53 am 
Post subject: Consolidation
Reply with quote

Pretty naive to think that forcing a merger of two townships without consensus of the Voters is the right thing to do whether it’s 1988 or 2018. It will only divide the community. I wish i knew who you were so I could better judge as to whether your opinion is worthwhile. So I have to assume that you probably don’t have a clue as to the dynamics of living in a small community and the consequences of doing Township business in this inappropriate manner.
_________________
Ronald L. Wojan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Beaver Island Forum Index -> Main Beaver Island Open Discussion Forum All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 14, 15, 16  Next
Page 15 of 16

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   CalendarCalendar   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
 

Forum Rules: Topics and posts do not necessarily express our views. The point of this forum is to allow everyone to post their thoughts and ideas, talk about Beaver Island and all things related, and have a place to chat with other Beaver Island folks. We do not moderate posts based on whether we agree or disagree with a particular topic. Everyone is invited and encouraged to post. The rules are:
1.) Please be kind and considerate, and keep the forum constructive.
2.) Please include your name with your post. We value everyone's right to express their views, but in cases where someone else may be negatively impacted by a post or where the lack of a name causes confusion, anonymous posts may be deleted.
3.) Please keep the forum clean and appropriate for any age. Posts which are intended to attack or offend others are not appropriate.