Interest find on township consolidations

[Andy's Grooming Barn]

I really am not thinking negative but realistic. Please explain all of these things that we are doubling up on and instead of being vague on things please be specifics.
Don thinks taxes will go down then show some numbers to prove that. We already have one of everything, all of that is combined already so what is all that needs to be combined? All that has been combines would have to be redone if we consolidated and that is just more tax payer money to redo what is already done.

Mike I have to say that this comment really hurt my feelings, "we need to work for what is best for Beaver Island not what is best for your personal gain" I personally and through my business have given and done whatever I could in the past and in the present for what is BEST for beaver Island taking my personal gain out of it. In this vote I will vote what is best for the ENTIRE island not just half of the island as I have looked at figures and it is only showing half the island to benefit from consolidation.

[islandliving]

Mike, I think more positive thoughts would be in place if the whole island was informed properly about the consolidation. I think the townships should have come together and got information and facts together for its taxpayers. The facts the townships were asked to be silent or expected to be silent is not right. Not everyone reads the forum, newspaper, or is a member of the news on the net. I am not. It seems like a real sneaky move to many voters. We are one Island correct, but as quoted we are a divided Island. I would think if this consolidation happens or not because of the way it was presented will even make things worse. The getting along should have been worked on first. This proposal is throwing fuel to the fire. I agree we are sinking as stated by Mr. Gillespie. The problems Beaver Island has is not 2 townships.

John McCafferty

[Eric Naranjo]

I have to think that wherever D. Fix is at this moment he is probably getting a pretty good laugh. I know the pirate is laughing as well!

E.

[Wkohls]

Negative or skeptical?

Let me make sure than I understand this correctly. We have not yet seen a coherent argument that clearly identifies the objectives of consolidation, nor have we seen any reliable financial information which would support a fully-informed decision. Yet, anyone who questions consolidation is â??negativeâ?￾?

It appears the most common argument for consolidation is that we will eliminate redundancies and we will realize significant cost savings. By my calculations, approximately 70% of township and township-supported functions have been consolidated. Itâ??s entirely possible that we have reached a point of diminishing returns where additional consolidation will result in insignificant gains. Also, does it matter that taxpayers in one of the townships will not realize any of the savings?

The fact-free debate on the forum will continue until someone provides a coherent argument that is fully supported by reliable financial information. A slogan such as â??one island, one townshipâ?￾ is no substitute.

Random thought(s)
â?¢ Itâ??s entirely possible that the â??negativeâ?￾ people on the forum may save us from what could be a dreadful mistake.
â?¢ I hope a consolidated township is run more effectively than the consolidation campaign.
â?¢ Maybe the pirate can fix it.

[meadefamily]

DON H STATES:

Also have you, Kathe, John and Andy, ever thought that both St. James and Peaine taxes will end up equal and lower when all is said and done. Think positive.

Don what is your address? Since you are asking tax payers to buy into this with only the hope of being positive and you have nothing to back your comments about taxes being equal or lower what address would you like us to send our tax bill in the event they are raised?

Common sense and being informed seems to have escaped some.

Saying some are negative because they want facts is unfair.

Joining of townships needs to be about more than taxes and saving money. It needs to be about what it will do for the growth and longevity of the island. What is upsetting is when a group embelishies and manipulates to try and get people to vote their way.

I will be the first to reconize that St James township is important to the islands future, and that the people that live in St James are equally important. I would not care if my taxes were raised if it helped the overall outcome of the island and services.

What is flusterating about how it was approached is that the few that are pushing this are not bringing facts to the table. SHOW the taxpayers and voters that this is for the greater good.

Perhaps the reason why no one is showing numbers is that numbers alone is they do not hold enough merit for a merger. If they did...then they would have been presented in the beginning. Richie nailed it with his comment before about what great things could come from the merger. It would be amazing for sure. But "could be" is not good enough.

So with that said...Don H, I look forward to obtaining your address just incase your "positive" approach doesn't work out so well.

Disclaimer: Eric, My comments to BI Pirate is that he gets A "FIX" out of bantering and harassing others. The "name" gives the pirate a more human identity. Plus, he is having so much fun this just gives him another layer of identity. You certainly jumped to your own conclusions there!!

[BI Pirate]

Reading this morning's continuing saga reminds me of one of my favorite stories from an umpire mate of mine. He was working the 3rd base line and all during the game a woman in the box seats just keep yelling harassments at him relentlessly. During the 7th inning stretch, she yelled out that if he were her husband she would put poison in his food. He calmly walked within ear shot of her and said, "Lady, if I were your husband, I would gladly eat it".
I'm not sure she insisted on getting his name and address.
aka/Don

[Gillespie]

Bill Kohls, post your projected budget! Letâ??s see your facts, I know it will be useful to compare with the budget volunteers are working on. If you are so against this you should not be waiting on others, put your information forward. Lead! You are the supervisor! The question is on the ballot, show us!

[islandliving]

I donâ??t think Mr. Kohls is the one that circulated the petition without giving any facts to the people. I think he is the only leader coming forward with anything. Why canâ??t we hear the stand from St. Jamesâ??s Township. If for consolidation speak up. Voices from more leaders would clear the air. I would hope he would voice his opinion either way. What a leader should do. LEAD.

John McCafferty

[Wkohls]

The facts will become known in the next 4-5 months. Consider having an open mind on this will you?

Richard Gillespie
January 23, 2018

[islandliving]

Anyone who can make a statement â??what is best for your own personal gain has to be misinformed. How could consolidation possibly give anyone person in either township a personal gain??

John McCafferty

[islandliving]

Why are volunteers working on the figures and answers. Shouldnâ??t this be done by our leaders??

[Nancy Levant]

It should also be understood that the state determines and regulates the rules for how such initiatives are brought before the people; not township trustees/boards. In fact, the only way to decide if people want to consolidate or not is to get it on a ballot, and Angel Welke clearly solicited input from residents prior to petitioning the people for signatures (in both townships) indicating their desire to vote on a potential consolidation.

That said, both sides are seemingly dug in to their respective opinions while admitting to awaiting the facts. I agree that open-mindedness is probably a more reasonable stance until those facts are provided. At the same time, demanding generic â??factsâ?￾ is a somewhat inadequate response. Each voter should compile a list of specific facts they want answered. If, as stated, 70+ percent of island services are already consolidated, what specific questions do you want answered to feel your vote would then be an educated/best vote?

Asking very specific questions also holds both sides accountable for making their cases, which ultimately are your cases both for and against. However, as with all things that affect the future, things can and will change, so permanent answers are never possible, particularly with unknowns such as future development opportunities, economic changes, war(s), county consolidations, new federal and state laws, etc.

I take issue with the term â??leadâ?￾. It is the obligation/duty of the people to lead those they elected to represent them; representatives are paid to represent the will of the people. If people favor consolidated townships, they have an obligation to lead their representatives to initiate that action. If people do not want consolidated townships, they have an obligation to direct their representatives to act against consolidation. Representatives are not supposed to lead the people (refer to DC).

Consolidation is on the ballot, and it was placed on the ballot in the only manner available to raise the issue because consolidation is, in fact, a ballot/voter-determined process. The process is State-regulated, not Beaver Island-regulated. Petitioning for signatures was the legal means, and opinions were solicited prior to the petition, so letâ??s move on to the specific facts each voter needs to cast a facts-based vote.

[Pam Grassmick]

While we wait for the townships to roll out their ideas about efficient, cost-effective island governance and those developing the proposed consolidation budget, we need to acknowledge that some township committees have disappeared and finding those who will serve on committees with an aging and decreasing population is becoming more difficult. Just consider for a moment involved island citizens, attending monthly meetings of the two townships and two planning commissions. Some taxpayers have properties in both townships or the issues before the township boards are of interest to all of Beaver Island. It is very time consuming and burdensome to attend two or more meetings every month. Some will say, â??stay homeâ?￾. It is necessary for citizens to attend these township meetings to truly understand what is happening. Minutes don't reflect the discussions, lack of discussion, or public comments. Islanders could potentially be more engaged and focused by attending one township meeting per month.

John, please do not disparage volunteerism. I think of some of the greatest contributions to this island coming from volunteers-the Community Center, Food Pantry, beginnings of Fire and EMS (and saving EMS), and many more who have contributed to help Beaver Island. Volunteers are not paidâ??not because they are worthless, but because they are priceless.

[sbsp]

Pam -

[Andy's Grooming Barn]

Disparage - regard or represent as being of little worth.

John makes the comment, "Why are volunteers working on the figures and answers. Shouldnâ??t this be done by our leaders??"

Pam where did he disparage volunteerism? Again stop twisting things around that don't matter. I am pretty sure John appreciates all of the volunteers on this island, far more than what you had listed but then again distraction from the subject seems to be the point for a few.

I don't know what volunteers are working on information but I would hope the petitioners are working on information since they are the ones that wanted this on the ballot I feel they really should make a case for it, I guess I personally feel it is for them to prove why it is for the better of the island if they are expecting us to vote that way but it has been a month and they have gotten the people no information as of yet, I would have hoped they gathered the information prior to putting it on the ballot or why put it on the ballot?