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K.A. Pike



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:21 pm 
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There have been those that have stated since the township officials were not consulted about the consolidation that it can't possible be a good thing for this island. Sounds like something the British would've said about those trouble makers who sailed across the pond to settle this land. When the "officials" fail to meet the expectations of it's people "we the people" get involved without permission from the "officials"

Mr. Kohls presented three "facts"

Fact #1 – The financial benefits of consolidation will not be shared equitably by taxpayers in St. James and Peaine Townships.

--- is it a requirement that one township (your neighbors) "may" benefit more than the other, for the consolidation to, in the end, be best for everyone?

Fact #2 – Under any conceivable scenario, taxes will decrease in St. James Township as a result of township consolidation.

---- can you share the scenario's you base this statement on. Again, we're all just looking for the facts to back up your "facts/opinions"

Just my opinion, but isn't it the goal of consolidation that taxes decrease? If one township decreases more than the other, isn't it still a good thing.

Fact #3 – Taxes will increase in Peaine Township unless township consolidation results in cost savings of $115,000 (roughly 30% of general fund expenditures) each year.

---- can you share how this $115,000 amount was calculated? Can you share with us the current tax levies of each township and again how this number was reached. It's just an opinion right now, please share the basis for this statement.

Please note that the foregoing is based upon current tax levies and further excludes any consideration of the substantial costs that would be incurred to consolidate the townships.

- - - what is the "substantial cost" you speak of. Do you have inside information and know the cost to consolidate? or are you just expressing your opinion that the cost is "substantial" Again will the cost to consolidate. (we call that a one time charge) be worth the long term benefit to the island and promote growth.
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meadefamily



Joined: 17 Jun 2014
Posts: 130

PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:29 pm 
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Where did you read that about township not being consulted and not a good thing? I don't see where anyone said that. What I see is people are just asking for facts. It is great that citizens get involved for the betterment of a community. What I read was direct attacks on an official for responding.
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K.A. Pike



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:19 pm 
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Kathe,

Here are two examples of John McCafferty stating the townships were not involved or consulted in the consolidation process. On this thread and other threads this has been a common theme by McCafferty and others.

Granted sometimes opinions are expressed as facts when in fact there is no truth to them.

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:59 am by John McCafferty

"It is a township consolidation so why not have township involvement. As quoted by St. James Township Clerk “ it was not the townships decision to consolidate “. I am beginning to understand why at this point. Probably not a good idea in the eyes of the townships. If it was I would think we would hear more voices."

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:27 pm by John McCafferty

"The fact is was not the townships idea to consolidate townships sounds a little crazy to me. Why would the petitioners not go to the townships to support the consolidation and if they did why is it not supported by the townships?"
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islandliving



Joined: 21 Nov 2015
Posts: 276
Location: Beaver Island, Michigan

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:26 am 
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K. A. Quick question are you a son or relative to Francis Pike on Bonner landing. Many ask and I don’t really know who you are? You seem to waste huge amounts of time re-posting many of my post which are just my many questions and opinions on the consolidation. If you feel the voters need to keep reading my posts over then I am flattered. But I think the voters would like to see some answers to the questions that are being presented. Mr. Kohls is the only one to come forward with any facts to concerned voters and then you attack him as have others. Maybe instead of wasting your valuable time re-posting my post you could be the typist for the petitioners and supporters and give us an answer or 2 to some questions. Everything you are slamming Mr. Kolhs on are things that should have been addressed and answered before the petition was even circulated. I am happy that at least one township official is trying to give the voters some answers. Again I thank you for bringing my post forward from time to time. Makes me feel like my opinion are valuable.

John McCafferty
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BI Pirate



Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 743
Location: Whiskey Island

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:47 am 
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My intent is to keep this debate a fact based level playing field. Let me offer my alternative facts:

Fact 1. Benefits of the consolidation will be shared equitably by both township when the Township Equalizer Factor kicks in.

Fact 2. Under any conceivable scenario taxes will decrease in both townships and a bit more in Peaine or St. James.

Fact 3. There will only be a tax increase in St. James Township and none in Peaine Township if the consolidation cost savings is less than $173.00/per/. Confused Razz Wink
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K.A. Pike



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:58 am 
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This is a serious issue and is not a waste of time. If Beaver Island has any hope of attracting new non-homestead home owners and even retaining the current non-homesteader this is important.

I find it necessary to repost things you have side because you bounce around so much and often contradict things you have previously posted.
Sometimes it's good to remind everyone what's been said and to clarify opinions from facts.

I find it interesting when you and others ask questions and keep bringing it up its a "legitimate" quest to find facts and get to the bottom of an issue and when someone questions your opinion or has an opposing opinion you call it an attack and slamming. That is a classic middle school playground tactic that most of us see for what it is.

Mr. Kolhs raises three "facts". Just as you are seeking facts, I am asking for his foundation and basis to substantiate his post.

I'm not the hall monitor here and I'm not going to debate whether or not I or anyone has to right to ask for someone to back up their post with proof. Trust me I'll keep an eye on this issue and I will hold anyone to the fire when they throw out their opinion as fact and has not backed it up with facts. No matter your position on this issue, those in favor of consolidation and those opposed have to come forward with proof.

Our family is no relation to Francis Pike.
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BI Pirate



Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 743
Location: Whiskey Island

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:09 am 
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John, I think K.A. is responding to your post, not mine, but I will be happy to answer for you with more of my alternative facts. Rolling Eyes Wink Very Happy
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islandliving



Joined: 21 Nov 2015
Posts: 276
Location: Beaver Island, Michigan

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:03 am 
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K. A. Pike quoted
“This is a serious issue and not a waste of time. If Beaver Island has any hope new non-homestead owners and current non-homesteader this is important “ unsupported opinion

My unsupported opinion. The only facts presented by a Township Supervisor is that this consolidation will increase taxes. Not only a way to loose non-homesteaders but permanent residents as well.

My unsupported opinion. This is a serious issue and a waste of time and money and is not the way to fix Beaver Island.

John McCafferty
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Wkohls



Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:00 am 
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I am the former chief financial officer of a publicly-traded bank holding company and I have substantial experience with mergers and acquisitions. I’m comfortable with my math, but it will take some time to prepare a thorough, stand-alone presentation. (I’m not sure if I will be able to format a financial presentation on the forum, but I will try.)

With all due respect, however, Mr. Pike has missed the pertinent point(s). An unelected group has circulated petitions to put township consolidation on the ballot. It is incumbent upon them to make a coherent argument.

The impact of consolidation on taxes is (or, should be) a fundamental consideration for voters. Yet, the petitioners have failed to share any meaningful analysis. Do they not fully understand the impact of consolidation? Or, are they simply not willing to tell us what they know?

As I said in a prior post, “Let us see the financial analysis that they have prepared. If they have done no meaningful analysis, they should say so!”

The voters deserve to be treated with more respect.
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carolburton



Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 157

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:44 pm 
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No one has answered my questions either. Again I ask...What has your township done for you the taxpayer? What is your township doing for you the taxpayer now? I believe tax-payers are having a hard time with these questions and why the issue was put forth to consolidate. From my understanding a lot of people signed those petitions! We might want to consider WHY they did that. Especially the township officials because it is a big sign that belief in them right now seems to be very low. I think it was also so (tax-payers) could have a voice. It worked! That petition has everyones ear and (taxpayers) want to be heard and respected. It was a very united peaceful way to speak out.

WEBSITE https://lefevream.wixsite.com/beaverislandtownship
SURVEY https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/6962FPB

If you want to debate someone that is fine but please quote exactly as it was written context is very important to me and to the people reading. EXAMPLE

As stated...This is a serious issue and is not a waste of time. If Beaver Island has any hope of attracting new non-homestead home owners and even retaining the current non-homesteader this is important.

As Quoted...“This is a serious issue and not a waste of time. If Beaver Island has any hope new non-homestead owners and current non-homesteader this is important “
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Wkohls



Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:09 pm 
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Please see https://wkohls.wixsite.com/consolidationinfo for fully-documented facts relating to the impact of township consolidation on property taxes. Many thanks to Jack Gallagher for his help!
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