We have developed a website for all of the information related to the township consolidation ballot proposal in May 2018. The web address is:
https://lefevream.wixsite.com/beaverislandtownship
There is a contact page so you can send questions or comments directly to me.
Angel Welke
Township Consolidation Website
Moderator: Gillespie
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Angel Welke
- Posts: 222
- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:22 am
- Contact:
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Jimmy McCafferty
- Posts: 52
- Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:31 am
township consolidation website
Cost of consolidation unknown, attorney fees unknown. Cost of organizing committee unknown. Property owners who have no vote, no public hearings to discuss. Talk about irresponsibility and total disregard to all residents of the Island.
Hope you can live with this. Hard to imagine anyone supporting this without true numbers. Will give your attorney credit for his research but question your true motives. Surely you do not have the welfare of Beaver Island on your agenda.
Hope you can live with this. Hard to imagine anyone supporting this without true numbers. Will give your attorney credit for his research but question your true motives. Surely you do not have the welfare of Beaver Island on your agenda.
A solution in search of a problem
In my prior post, I stated that this decision is â??far too important to ask the Islandâ??s voters to base their decision(s) on the unsupported claims, idle speculation and conjecture on the Forum.â? I also described the information that the petitioners should make available to the Island voters.
Rather than provide meaningful information, the petitioners have punted by making vague assertions that mimic of the unsupported claims, idle speculation and conjecture on the Forum.
Did the petitioners do their homework before putting township consolidation on the ballot? It seems to me that the petitioners would make a compelling financial argument, if they could. Let us see the financial analysis that they have prepared. If they have done no meaningful analysis, they should say so!
The voters deserve better.
Rather than provide meaningful information, the petitioners have punted by making vague assertions that mimic of the unsupported claims, idle speculation and conjecture on the Forum.
Did the petitioners do their homework before putting township consolidation on the ballot? It seems to me that the petitioners would make a compelling financial argument, if they could. Let us see the financial analysis that they have prepared. If they have done no meaningful analysis, they should say so!
The voters deserve better.
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sbsp
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:06 pm
- Location: Beaver Island, Kalamazoo, Fripp Island, SC
Bill -
Drop the gloves, go to a neutral corner, let the voters decide based on facts, not your conjecture as Supervisor. As Supervisor you need to take the higher road. You can't separate your personal opinions from those of the Supervisor when voicing them publically, that comes with accepting public office.
Drop the gloves, go to a neutral corner, let the voters decide based on facts, not your conjecture as Supervisor. As Supervisor you need to take the higher road. You can't separate your personal opinions from those of the Supervisor when voicing them publically, that comes with accepting public office.
Kirk
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islandliving
- Posts: 526
- Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:10 am
- Location: Beaver Island, Michigan
Kirk, how can you slam Bill Kohls on his post. He is the only township official to come forward with anything on this consolidation so far to my knowledge. Maybe you should read back through his post and realize he is the only one that is giving facts. I am very happy that the supervisor of my township is placing theses request on the petitioners and supporters of this consolidation. There is still not good solid answers to the many questions that voters are asking. Why don't you help us out with some solid answers and figures before slamming our township supervisor. Get the petitioners to hold some open discussion meetings and sit and answer all the questions the voters have. What is the website another news letter telling voters when the election is and all the legal steps of the consolidation. It looks like a attorney written beat around the bush document with out one answer to what we are asking as voters. Are all the E-mailed questions and answers going to be posted. Why can't the open discussion continue on the forum. Why does it now have to move to a different online venue. Again Kirk read through Bill's post and if you believe the petitioners have done all their homework, provided us with facts, financial analysis, tax savings analysis, salary projections, why the consolidation had to be done so quickly, why they are choosing to take jobs from people ect. Or maybe if you can show us voters 1 answer to a question, then you could have the rights to publicly slam our township supervisor. Also Bill is a very intelligent man and I don't think you need to tell him what he "need " to do or what he "can't " do. Actually he probably knows his job description quite well.
John McCafferty
John McCafferty
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meadefamily
- Posts: 280
- Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:35 pm
There is a company that does studies in this. I posted thier info on a previous post and reached out to them as well. He was given a few names to contact. I am not sure if anything came of it. Maybe the townships should consider this option. A few dollars and time today to get ALL the facts and not speculations and opinions would be better use of money and energy by all.
http://crcmich.org is the website.
http://crcmich.org is the website.
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sbsp
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:06 pm
- Location: Beaver Island, Kalamazoo, Fripp Island, SC
John -
Valid questions, all. I'll try to keep this short. I do not have the facts on the consolidation, pro or con. Anything I express is my personal opinion and not fact. I can express my opinion because I'm a voter and not an elected township official. Therein lies the difference. I have stated several times on this forum that I'm confident that the petitioners will make facts available to the public before the vote. If not, SHAME ON THEM.
I am not going to go through each of Bill's posts for debate but will ask readers to go back and read them. In doing so, I request that they evaluate each one of Bill's statements to determine if it is FACT or CONJECTURE. I'll let the reader be the judge. In my opinion they are not balanced but tend toward personal conjecture and not fact. I respect that St. James Township has made the commitment to remain neutral but available to answer questions with facts. I am simply asking Bill as supervisor and Peaine Township to take the same high road.
My post was not intended to "slam" Bill or tell him what he "need" or "can't" do but only as a elected official and supervisor, he take a neutral position presenting consolidation issues. I do not know Bill well enough to know if he knows his job description quite well. The only time I have really seen him in an official capacity was during the EMS Crisis and I wasn't impressed with that show.
Valid questions, all. I'll try to keep this short. I do not have the facts on the consolidation, pro or con. Anything I express is my personal opinion and not fact. I can express my opinion because I'm a voter and not an elected township official. Therein lies the difference. I have stated several times on this forum that I'm confident that the petitioners will make facts available to the public before the vote. If not, SHAME ON THEM.
I am not going to go through each of Bill's posts for debate but will ask readers to go back and read them. In doing so, I request that they evaluate each one of Bill's statements to determine if it is FACT or CONJECTURE. I'll let the reader be the judge. In my opinion they are not balanced but tend toward personal conjecture and not fact. I respect that St. James Township has made the commitment to remain neutral but available to answer questions with facts. I am simply asking Bill as supervisor and Peaine Township to take the same high road.
My post was not intended to "slam" Bill or tell him what he "need" or "can't" do but only as a elected official and supervisor, he take a neutral position presenting consolidation issues. I do not know Bill well enough to know if he knows his job description quite well. The only time I have really seen him in an official capacity was during the EMS Crisis and I wasn't impressed with that show.
Kirk
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meadefamily
- Posts: 280
- Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:35 pm
Kirk...
Here we go again. Your "intentions" are clear and your slamming is obvious. How about a constructive conversation without dragging anyone through the mudd?
Post like your last one are rude, unneeded. The double talk is astounding. Yes, everyone is allowed an opinion...but here is a thought. How about you try and have one without the need to go after someone to validate it?
The forum strikes again.
Kathe
Here we go again. Your "intentions" are clear and your slamming is obvious. How about a constructive conversation without dragging anyone through the mudd?
Post like your last one are rude, unneeded. The double talk is astounding. Yes, everyone is allowed an opinion...but here is a thought. How about you try and have one without the need to go after someone to validate it?
The forum strikes again.
Kathe
Kirk, apparently those against this endeavor can make negative posts but not those wanting a fair hearing. The negativity started immediately without asking questions. As I said before there are 4.5 months to air this out, we know who is against it at this point. Primarily it appears to be to protect their own corner. Let's see. For the record, the supervisor of Norwood township gets 5,000. per year! They have a cement company mine in their township and a good bit of industry! On island we have two supervisors making 15,000. per year, two clerks, two treasurers, etc. etc. let's stop kidding around about whether we will save money, its obvious!
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meadefamily
- Posts: 280
- Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:35 pm
Richie
Just so I understand your logic...anyone who is asking for facts is on the "other side" and you feel looking at wages alone is enough data to determine the total impact of consolidation?
That is an interesting theory and very belittling of those who do want to be informed. Personally I have no vote, but I certainly will be impacted. Regardless of my voting power I am still a tax payer and at this point I am not sure how I feel about consolidation because of all the posturing and lack of solid facts.
One question I have asked twice that seems to go unanswered is what about the debt St. James has. My understanding is consolidation would make that be better for St. James. Is it possible for an educated answer without attacking others?
As far as Mr. Kohl's goes, he is an elected official who was voted in by his township residents. He has a right and obligation to inform his township of concerns and facts. When you were in politics you had no problem speaking your opinions.
Maybe it would be beneficial if in the future everyone is respected and reconize that just because someone ask a question that does not put them in one "camp" or the other.
Honestly all the accusing others makes me wonder what information is not being shared....
Just so I understand your logic...anyone who is asking for facts is on the "other side" and you feel looking at wages alone is enough data to determine the total impact of consolidation?
That is an interesting theory and very belittling of those who do want to be informed. Personally I have no vote, but I certainly will be impacted. Regardless of my voting power I am still a tax payer and at this point I am not sure how I feel about consolidation because of all the posturing and lack of solid facts.
One question I have asked twice that seems to go unanswered is what about the debt St. James has. My understanding is consolidation would make that be better for St. James. Is it possible for an educated answer without attacking others?
As far as Mr. Kohl's goes, he is an elected official who was voted in by his township residents. He has a right and obligation to inform his township of concerns and facts. When you were in politics you had no problem speaking your opinions.
Maybe it would be beneficial if in the future everyone is respected and reconize that just because someone ask a question that does not put them in one "camp" or the other.
Honestly all the accusing others makes me wonder what information is not being shared....
There is nothing being hidden and there is no debt in St. James Township (confirmed). Beaver Island is the only island we could find anywhere that has more than one township. Drummond Island, in fact is a single township and it is 249 square miles compared to our 55 sq. miles. I am not trying to suppress anything but ask that people give this a chance. Historically all of these land masses were originally divided in to townships which are 36 square miles (old English measuring system). Peaine used to be 2 townships or a total of 3 but Galillee Township was absorbed into Peaine many years ago because it was senseless to have same. That situation is before us today. ONE ISLAND, ONE TOWNSHIP! Drummond would have to have been 7 townships at one time!
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islandliving
- Posts: 526
- Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:10 am
- Location: Beaver Island, Michigan
As always great post Kathe. We ask the same questions over and over with no solid answers. When we question the urgency of the consolidation with no facts or studies done we are acussed of protecting our own corners. I would hope to get a explanation of that. At this point I donâ??t think I would vote for consolidation based on the fact that Norwood Township pays it Supervisor $5,000.00 per year and Drummond Island has one Township. I think myself and other concerned voters need a little more than that. Also I disagree with Kirk that Bill Kohls should remain neutral because he is the Supervisor. I think all township officials should come forward pro or con to help voters understand. It is a township consolidation so why not have township involvement. As quoted by St. James Township Clerk â?? it was not the townships decision to consolidate â??. I am beginning to understand why at this point. Probably not a good idea in the eyes of the townships. If it was I would think we would hear more voices.
John McCafferty
John McCafferty